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The current political line is that they have good participation, but the surveys were open and not completed. The extra week is to let them complete it.
Believe what you want.... we'll never see the results and likely won't know the actual participation. :) That being said... fill it out!!! |
Originally Posted by RockyBoy
(Post 1740215)
Maybe if any of us had the slightest bit of faith that they would do what we put in the survey and show us the survey results after the contract is signed, they would get more participation.
Originally Posted by LivingTheDream
(Post 1740209)
P.s. Just got a robo call saying the survey is extended for another week... no surprise to me... literally 90+% of the pilots I fly with don't believe their input was considered in the C2012 survey.
The best thing we can all do is understand what's going to happen and it is exactly what happened last time. Exactly. Understand that and prepare right now for voting NO if this TA isn't "historic." Prepare yourself to do so in the face of incredible scare tactics used against you. The NO vote is the single weapon we have. It's the only contingency that scares Mike from achieving his goal of minimizing pilot costs to Delta. Carl And yes I did complete the survey. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1740224)
The current political line is that they have good participation, but the surveys were open and not completed. The extra week is to let them complete it.
Believe what you want.... we'll never see the results and likely won't know the actual participation. :) That being said... fill it out!!! |
Upset saturday in college football! Wow! Looks like AU has definitely shown up to play against LSU, though!
Go Noles. :) |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1740231)
Upset saturday in college football! Wow! Looks like AU has definitely shown up to play against LSU, though!
Go Noles. :) |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1740231)
Upset saturday in college football! Wow! Looks like AU has definitely shown up to play against LSU, though!
Go Noles. :) T didn't have a good day either, Gator bait! (sorry Tsq). And now the Tigers are getting ready to roll over the Tigers! :eek: D. Williams, what a catch! |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1740225)
I made these exact points to Donatelli a few days ago. Got the terse "thanks for your input" response. Mike has no concerns at all in my opinion because the survey is simply a feel good exercise. If it was anything else, Mike would address the serious underlying issue of what happened in C2012. But he refuses to do so.
The best thing we can all do is understand what's going to happen and it is exactly what happened last time. Exactly. Understand that and prepare right now for voting NO if this TA isn't "historic." Prepare yourself to do so in the face of incredible scare tactics used against you. The NO vote is the single weapon we have. It's the only contingency that scares Mike from achieving his goal of minimizing pilot costs to Delta. Carl And yes I did complete the survey. Here's the email I sent to him. If you guys were MD, what would you have to say? __________________________________________________ Captain Donatelli: I read your most recent Chairman's Letter with interest. Specifically, the following quote intrigued me: "We intend to negotiate with this company as one united group, bent on achieving the greatest contract in airline history." I'm sure you realize that our current pay rates are a 34% cut in buying power compared to the buying power we had in 2004 with our C2K rates. To fully restore a 34% cut, it requires a 51% increase. That's the straight math on it. Now, I realize our current contract has some features that make an "apples to apples" comparison to C2K difficult. But bottom line, in order to achieve "the greatest contract in airline history" we are going to need something in the neighborhood of a 50% increase to our W2's. I guess my question to you is this. Did you really intend to say that? Do you really mean it? We've spent the past 10 years acting as if we do not expect anything even remotely like what it would take for restoration. Is that changing going forward? |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1740169)
This right here folks. In my opinion, CDO's will absolutely 100% be in the TA regardless of what the survey says. Besides, we'll never see the survey results because DALPA will never release them. Therefore, the responsibility is rightfully on us to determine fitness for duty. If you're fit for the morning portion of the CDO, fly it. If not, call in fatigued and go back to the hotel. Easy.
What is NOT an option is for anyone to fly that morning leg fatigued. If you do and have a mishap, you will not be able to use fatigue as an excuse. Delta will not be fighting for you because you tried to make the operation work. The FAA, NTSB, and Delta will only wonder why you flew fatigued. If the FAA takes certificate action against you, not even ALPA lawyers :rolleyes: will be able to help you. Always remember that you don't have a paycheck at Delta without a pilot's license. Carl He describe 3 hours and 20 minutes sleep in the past 24 hours due to difficulty sleeping before the shift work. He got a 5 year sentence, beat up in prison, and the responsibility of the death of the people that got killed. No alcohol or any other issue. Just working tired. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1740224)
The current political line is that they have good participation, but the surveys were open and not completed. The extra week is to let them complete it.
Believe what you want.... we'll never see the results and likely won't know the actual participation. :) That being said... fill it out!!! The Good News is; the MEC actually seems to want input and is going to allow more pilots to finish it up. The Bad News is; the pilots have no faith in the MEC, most likely due to C2012. I hope many, many pilots fill it out, and I hope they tell the MEC in no uncertain terms, that another 3% anything is unacceptable! :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by casual observer
(Post 1740265)
Could be even worse than that. Douglas Bouch was the truck driver that admitted he might have dozed off prior to a fatal accident he caused.
He describe 3 hours and 20 minutes sleep in the past 24 hours due to difficulty sleeping before the shift work. He got a 5 year sentence, beat up in prison, and the responsibility of the death of the people that got killed. No alcohol or any other issue. Just working tired. Precedent has been set that when operating under DOT regulations that if you perform "duties" while knowing you are fatigued you are negligent even if you are legal per the rules. If you are involved in any incident that involves loss of life or injuries and are shown to be negligent, prison time is a real possibility. |
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