Hey fellas. I know this scenario is a repeat question from probably 1,000 pages ago but it appears that the Captain I am flying with has a SAQ for the first turn of our trip. Am I correct that there is no way to get released from this turn before I show up? It would make the difference in me having to commute in the night before just to show up in the AM and sit at the airport for 10 hours waiting to pick up the rest of the trip.

Thanks in advance!

Carl, call an Atlanta Rep. What you state is not correct.

So this is now morphing into yet another call from C20 to recall C44's Reps? I hope not. That is not how we build unity.

Just a few pages back you stated C44 was going to blow into recalls over our EVP election where a C20 member was elected. In fact there is nothing of the sort on the Agenda which was re-sent to members today.

Your strategy has no logical conclusion. Nobody has the votes to recall anybody. It just isn't happening, so why make the threat? Then if by some miracle 2,000+ pilots decided to go along, who would you try to get elected? (don't worry, I do not want the job) but, you don't like any of the reasonably viable candidates when they occasionally show up on APC.

Bottom line, Delta pilots benefit from a functional MEC. "Our" candidate is President. He takes the position (as does the US DOT) that the Narita slot swap must be handled as a block; not allocated piecemeal. As a 747 Captain you should realize that somewhere around 1,300 to 1,500 Delta wide body jobs hinge on our keeping our slots. United has an immunized JV partner, we don't. If you review the data ANA+UAL's pacific gains have appeared to drive our market retreats. Watch UAL as a leading market indicator.

http://centreforaviation.com/images/...0_may_2015.png

... and realize Vanilla Air is a wholly owned subsidiary of ANA which is co-branded, so you can combine their lines on this chart.

http://centreforaviation.com/images/...yo_carrier.png

IMHO, that's the big picture. We should not be fighting just to fight.

Even if you could get that approval, I wouldn't do that if the majority of ATL line pilots were jingoists like you. I truly don't know whether the way their reps are behaving isn't exactly what the majority of ATL line pilots actually want. When Nestor got elected, that appeared to me to be proof that a majority of ATL line pilots wanted a change to the top-down culture. But now that Nestor has been fully assimilated, I've seen no move to recall him even though he's rejected everything he campaigned for.

First, the DPA isn't going to happen now. Terribly sad, but true. Second, your description of a TA as a "done deal" really says it all. It just re-confirms the current MEC administration's belief that a reps ratification of a TA must be automatic. It is an unreconcilable disconnect between the two views on our MEC. The fact that you could even ask that question is stunning Bar.

By the tried and true method used back when ALPA wasn't a top-down dictatorship. We got to see a little bit of it when our reps sent the negotiators back to the table AFTER the negotiators signed their first "done deal" in the FAR 117 LOA. The MEC administration is trying to stop that from ever happening again by ensuring that members don't have the facts to debate them with until after it passes. And you're perfectly OK with that. Stunning.

Carl

Great post Denny, but here's the concern I see...and please don't take this as a personal shot against you. I've seen many great articulate posts like this from you and others on similar past issues. But when it's all said and done, and your very reasonable requests are ignore - not by your reps, but by the MEC administration, you still loyally state support for our MEC. If the MEC administrators know that if they just endure your pi$$ing and moaning long enough to do what they want, and you'll always come back to support them anyway, what's their incentive to ever change?

Carl

Yes, when a authorized representative negotiates within their authority and gets a deal, it is a done deal.

In Council 20's comm, it appeared they were in agreement with the TA. Based on what they wrote (and not knowing any more) I am thinking they plan to vote for the TA. If our Reps are satisfied, that is good enough for me.

So Carl, lets say you buy a truck. After you get the deal done you put a bedliner, cover, mud flaps and a brush guard on it and drive it for a month. Then the representative of the dealership you bought from calls up and says, the manager did not like the deal so I need to charge you $2,000 more.

• Will your run to the dealer with a $2,000 check?
• Will you trust that representative again?
• Will you buy from that dealer again?
• Would you consider them a reliable business partner?
• How would you react if Delta's Board of Directors decided to arbitrarily turn down a Tentative Agreement?

There are procedures to deal with errors. Absent an error it should be reasonably expected that TA's are done deals.

And it is this definitional change that marks the stark change in you over the years Bar. You now think that purposely withholding information by an MEC administration that is pilot group unelected, is actually fighting FOR pilots. You now think that reps fighting to get that information out to us before the vote are actually fighting their fellow pilots.

It's actually a perfect illustration of how divided we are and how polarized the debate is. We can't even agree on the definition of words.

Carl

I agree with your view.

In fact, I think our MEC fails to take credit for the good work it does.

My interpretation of the C20 article was that the MEC agreed to release the LOA, but there was data needed for proper context that was a concern somewhere. That probably is a Delta management thing. ALPA has a member of the BOD and is privy to data that marketing would not want to have available to competitors. But your guess is as good as mine.

I'm 100% correct Bar and you've decided to carry the water of an MEC administration by defending the act of withholding information until after a vote. It's the EXACT same thing as Nancy Pelosi saying we had to vote FOR Obamacare first...so we could find out what's in it. You're now defending this from the rooftops. Your denial of what you're doing doesn't change what you're doing.

I know Bar. You now believe unity is built by unanimous opinion. And unanimous opinion is best built by withholding key information to those who might form a differing opinion from it.

What are you talking about? When did I say this?

I know Bar. You now share this same disdainful opinion of council 44 line pilots as the MEC administration. You're absolutely convinced they're not paying attention and don't care. My strong hope is there's a shot it could happen prior to Section 6. Without ATL line pilots recalling and replacing those current four reps, we're sunk.

You should know that none of that means a thing with clear loopholes being purposely negotiated into TA's by our negotiating committee. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Carl

Unbelievable. Tell you what, look through ANY document describing ALPA's rules and point out where it describes a TA as a "Done Deal." Face palm.

You've clearly misread their update. If you've even read it at all. It appears to me you're just reprinting what the MEC administration's interpretation of what C20 thinks.

As a student of the Bucking Bar school of business, I would run to the car dealer with a $2,000 check while yelling: "My car dealer speaks for me!"

There were no "errors" in the first FAR 117 TA Bar. Yet the membership outcry over CDO's forced the reps to send the negotiators back to the table. Proof that TA's aren't and have NEVER BEEN thought of by anyone as a "done deal." This is an all new concept for TA's being proffered by this MEC administration and now strongly touted by you. This is exactly why the MEC administration now finds it necessary to withhold information until after the TA's approval. They will no longer tolerate what happened with FAR 117.

Carl

What the what?

“The top executives will meet on Dec. 16 when Park visits Delta’s Atlanta headquarters,” said a ranking airport official. “They are highly likely to discuss moving the airline’s Asian hub from Narita to Incheon.”

Heads of Incheon Airport, Delta to meet in U.S.