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sick leave abuse?3+
Originally Posted by Bluto
(Post 1873802)
Someone posted earlier that guys in their 30's and guys over 64 were the "worst" sick leave offenders. Considering that younger guys often have young kids (outbreak monkeys), and older guys are, well, old, is anyone surprised that these pilots would get sick more than others? How do they substantiate the claims that these are the leading offenders? Because they choose to verify less? The verification process is a PITA. I only do it if my illness requires a prescription since I rarely get close to the 100 hour "limit". Why not just deal with the gross offenders using the system in place and accept that people actually do get sick?
How much MORE are pilots FLYING now? How many more days per month are they working? Back in the day... we had a 75 hour cap, and most lines typically worked 12 days a month, and that was 727 domestic. Your line was either four 3 day trips, 3 on, 4 off, or three 4 day trips, 4 on, 6 off. If you got sick you might not even have to drop a trip, because you had at least 4 days off to recover, maybe 6 days. Now guys are flying a lot more. Some go right up to the FAR's, 100hrs. In 28 days, working 16-20 days a month. Now you get a simple head cold. Now you've got to drop a 25-30+ hour, 4-5 day trip. That was your 'time off' back when we had a 75 hour cap. I can't even remember how many times I was sick as soon as I got back from a trip, spent my days off, or my vacation days in bed, SICK, only to get well, just in time to fly my next trip. BUT... I didn't have to call in sick as often, because I had a lot more TIME OFF when we were only flying 75 hours, and 12 days, a month! |
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 1873363)
Who's side are you on here? Seriously? Are you on the pilot side or management's side? The first thing you have to learn in a negotiation is that there are two sides to the table.
I thought this site was to educate, inform, and an occasional underboob. And if a problem needs to be solved or a compromise achieved, squashing discussion and debate doesn't get us there. |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1873775)
FUPM!
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Originally Posted by index
(Post 1873827)
Brings back memories of 727 speedbooks, graffiti, and porn in every nook and cranny.
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Originally Posted by RetiredFTS
(Post 1873826)
I didn't realize that asking a question regarding anything being discussed was offensive and made me the enemy. Seriously!
I thought this site was to educate, inform, and an occasional underboob. And if a problem needs to be solved or a compromise achieved, squashing discussion and debate doesn't get us there. |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1873817)
That... and here's something nobody has mentioned yet, in regard to how much sick leave pilots are using:
How much MORE are pilots FLYING now? How many more days per month are they working? Back in the day... we had a 75 hour cap, and most lines typically worked 12 days a month, and that was 727 domestic. Your line was either four 3 day trips, 3 on, 4 off, or three 4 day trips, 4 on, 6 off. If you got sick you might not even have to drop a trip, because you had at least 4 days off to recover, maybe 6 days. Now guys are flying a lot more. Some go right up to the FAR's, 100hrs. In 28 days, working 16-20 days a month. Now you get a simple head cold. Now you've got to drop a 25-30+ hour, 4-5 day trip. That was your 'time off' back when we had a 75 hour cap. I can't even remember how many times I was sick as soon as I got back from a trip, spent my days off, or my vacation days in bed, SICK, only to get well, just in time to fly my next trip. BUT... I didn't have to call in sick as often, because I had a lot more TIME OFF when we were only flying 75 hours, and 12 days, a month! *Warning Public Math Problem* Pilot A calls in sick pre C12 for 1 3 day trip in the sick year. He uses 10:30 of sick time. The same pilot calls in sick for the same exact rotation in 2015, and doesn't use another minute. His total sick usage for the year is now 15:45. Q: How much more sick time did this pilot use in the second sick year vs the first? I'm with Carl (what the hell is going on this week? :D ) in that I want to see proof of alleged sick abuse before I get on board with this witch hunt. I have no doubt there are a few out there doing things they shouldn't, but I'm tired of feeling like an unethical POS every time I get a head cold and have to use the negotiated benefit provided for in our PWA. My sick leave hours have gone up YOY, mostly due to Timbo's reason above, combined with 5:15 ADG, and the fact that I fall squarely in the "living with little kids" category. Anyone can make a spreadsheet support their position - it's all in the assumptions and basis of the data. Garbage in, garbage out :cool: |
Maybe they just want to sure up the sick leave policy before they institute CDOs and change OE recovery rules knowing full well pilots are going to get beat up and/or mad and probably call in sick. Its a chess move.
But uh no, it's just all about you guys. :D |
Originally Posted by LeineLodge
(Post 1873864)
Also, some of our trips are now worth more hours than they were just a few years ago. The crappy 3 days worth 10:30 (30 hour sits + redeyes, UIO turns, etc) are now all worth 15:45. That in itself has an impact/increase in our alleged sick usage uptick through NO change in our behavior.
*Warning Public Math Problem* Pilot A calls in sick pre C12 for 1 3 day trip in the sick year. He uses 10:30 of sick time. The same pilot calls in sick for the same exact rotation in 2015, and doesn't use another minute. His total sick usage for the year is now 15:45. Q: How much more sick time did this pilot use in the second sick year vs the first? I'm with Carl (what the hell is going on this week? :D ) in that I want to see proof of alleged sick abuse before I get on board with this witch hunt. I have no doubt there are a few out there doing things they shouldn't, but I'm tired of feeling like an unethical POS every time I get a head cold and have to use the negotiated benefit provided for in our PWA. My sick leave hours have gone up YOY, mostly due to Timbo's reason above, combined with 5:15 ADG, and the fact that I fall squarely in the "living with little kids" category. Anyone can make a spreadsheet support their position - it's all in the assumptions and basis of the data. Garbage in, garbage out :cool: Pilot calls in sick on last day of a 13 day trip (also something we only recently started to do). Trip pays 75 hours. 45 block, 30 credit. Guess how much sick time he used? That's right boys and girls, ALL the credit gets charged to sick bank, even though the pilot called in sick on the last day. Who's abusing who here?! |
Originally Posted by flyallnite
(Post 1873889)
Or this example:
Pilot calls in sick on last day of a 13 day trip (also something we only recently started to do). Trip pays 75 hours. 45 block, 30 credit. Guess how much sick time he used? That's right boys and girls, ALL the credit gets charged to sick bank, even though the pilot called in sick on the last day. Who's abusing who here?! |
Where is Dalpa to crush these sick leave and OE trial balloons, and reassure us that the JV grievance and PS are not on the table for C15? Why aren't they demanding public proof of this so-called sick leave "abuse?" And if no proof exists, why isn't Dalpa screaming that from the top of Stone Mountain?
Let me guess: Dalpa can't talk about it publicly due to a "confidentiality agreement." Does that even exist? Or is it just a request from management? Yet somehow the company is free not to comply. Sound familiar? Proactive engagement fails again. |
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