|
|
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1888376)
I don't understand. What is the right thing for the senior part of the list to do? Seriously.
|
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1888394)
You can prove something else? Or are you calling your reps liars? If you don't trust them, maybe you should start a recall process.
But, hey, sure, they haven't discussed pay. I guess they're too busy finding ways to give away profit sharing, change sick leave to the detriment of your fellow pilots, sell scope, etc, etc. Yep, that's why they haven't gotten around to pay yet. |
Originally Posted by DogWhisperer
(Post 1888386)
DING-DING-DING!!!! GIVE THIS MAN A CIGAR!!! There is more to this job than the money. I have no desire to make a great income with the sacrifice of quality of life. What good is the money if you don't get to enjoy it with your family. Management would have us all working to the limits of the FARs if allowed. Quite a few on property would be willing to do it if available. Having worked in the regional world flying 95 hours of hard time a month, I have no desire to revisit that environment. Every little change in work rules has whittled away at a pilots control of their time off. Death by 1000 cuts if you will. I entered the business to fly 10-12 days a month...have a good income...and a great quality of life. After losing the cap...PBS...loss of vacation...changes in sick leave (to just name a few)....we are now working 15-17 days a month to have somewhat similar incomes. We have been chasing the "money ball" with a lost focus on the game. Pair this with our willingness to allow all the JV loopholes...flying that has been given away to help the company...but not us. Unless you consider helping the bottom line helps the company's profits...oh wait...we are looking at getting that amount reduced to us...silly me. Going forward...the JVs are going to be coming at us at a rapid pace. Aeromexico, soon to be GOL....not to mention the company's Chinese aspirations. Higher paying WB flying availability is going to be reduced for our side. Combine all the changes away from the pay rates and THAT is why we do not need to hurry in this negotiation. We have given up WAY to much to have to, once again, give up to get something in return. When a company offer is put on the table that doesn't better our position's quality of life...it should be greeted with silence from our side.
Rant over....now back to my cartoon world... BACK the PAC TEN |
Originally Posted by UGBSM
(Post 1887993)
Ill take a reasonable contract sooner rather than waste year after year swinging for the fences.
If you're saying you're in range of retirement and will take anything as long as its a raise to you even if it guts scope and QOL for everyone else, have fun with that stratedgy. But unless we sign 10 year deals the demographics will never support that, even during the big retirement wave, which isn't until the next contract most likely. This isn't a matter of hey we can get a 30% raise today but that's not a Cadillac per month or C2K+ full inflation (and retro!) so lets hold out until we get the motherload! I get the time value of money argument, and while I don't think that means we should roll over too easy, there is some level of value in TVM. I get it. But this is about us not falling for numerous, DEEP concessions in the most critical section of the contract (scope, at ALL levels) and inheriting a pathetic sick/harassment program that will harm far more pilots for far more years than those who will get a few bucks prior to punching out (not to mention, its that same demographic that uses the most sick time in the first place). I want positive gains form everyone, including the "dead zoners" and every other group all the way down to new hires. And I understand time value of money to a certain extent. But we should not sell management deep and permanent concessions for slightly more money sooner. That's just dumb. More importantly, the demographics simply don't support it anyway, even if we embrace a stratedgy of selling the majority down the river to get a few extra pieces of silver today. |
Originally Posted by Flamer
(Post 1888072)
So personally, I don't care what wall st thinks about our PS. Actually I don't think they care about it as much as the union and mgt want you to think they care about it. But I understand it is a concern. We only have to pay out a lot of profit sharing if there's, well, a LOT of profits. And the company gets to keep the vast majority of the profits regardless. How many billions are being returned to the shareholders versus how many billions are being paid to employees vs PS, now but especially going forward? Anyone really think they are going to tank our stock because the constantly increasing and accelerating 5B+ "shareholder return" isn't enough? Not falling for it. If "Wall Street doesn't like it" and tanks the stock just because of that (they won't) we would be in a position to reap a huge gain on the stock buyback portion of the plan and could roll the savings into a very robust dividend. Still think they would keep tanking the stock? Kind of hard to do when they're busy buying it up. |
Originally Posted by UGBSM
(Post 1888109)
Oh come on. Being reasonable in your expectations is not the same as surrendering and you know it.
Well, believe it or not, when you are a senior captain making over $300k per year as an hourly employee, pay raises are not necessarily your only focus. Non taxable income, tax advantaged income, and benefits such as vacation and medical insurance become more important than "25% plus 1/1/16". As the majority of pilots approach retirement I hope our contracts will reflect those priorities. If its from the minority its OK though, right? You paid your dues, so they can eat cake, right? Is that really what you're trying to say because that's exactly how its coming across. Again, I'm not talking about time value of money and you thinking a nice raise sooner is better than a bigger raise later or maybe never. Fine, I get that. But whatever it is that YOU want, NOW, what are you willing to gut in the current contract, which is already heavily concessionary, to achieve that modest quicker raise for YOU? |
With profit sharing as a backstop, there will never be a better time to dig in our heels and wait for the right deal. No "self-funded" raises, no concessions. I'll wait 2+ years for that deal. Will RA wait that long?
And why are the Dalpa operatives talking about the PILOTS being unreasonable? Seems to me the company's stance is pretty damn unreasonable. But you won't hear Dalpa saying that. |
Originally Posted by seamonster
(Post 1888312)
NO. Just wondering if our union in a roundabout way represents all nonunion employees.
All employees have successfully piggybacked on the DALPA contractual profit sharing. Most other employee groups, especially FA's, benefit mightily from DL pilot scope that they've never paid for and probably never will, and don't even know exists. |
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1888416)
With profit sharing as a backstop, there will never be a better time to dig in our heels and wait for the right deal. No "self-funded" raises, no concessions. I'll wait 2+ years for that deal. Will RA wait that long?
And why are the Dalpa operatives talking about the PILOTS being unreasonable? Seems to me the company's stance is pretty damn unreasonable. But you won't hear Dalpa saying that. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1888322)
Or maybe we should threaten to unionize? :D
Besides, we have to pass this TA to see what's in it. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:29 AM. |
|
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands