We've (LAX 7ER)have already gotten Kona back from the 737 in the June bid package. Winter is where the 737 has trouble with winds so if they're already shifting summer flying to the 7ER the writing is on the wall. Word is 737 gone from Hawaii by the end of the year. This spring they were equipment subbing up to the 757 via green slip because the 900's couldn't hack it.

 

And why didn't they know this before hand? Ought put some marketing guys in a rubber raft in that pool for 2 weeks. The one at the training center.

 

How come Alaska has been doing various Hawaii locations from numerous west coast airports for quite a while and we can't? Weird

 

Because winds duh. Or something.

 

Gear down, they can't hear the difference in that thing.

 

They could've asked Continental 10 years ago. I remember my friends there having the exact same issues.

Tell me we didn't just read the brochure.

 

they don't have an alternative airframe. and they have -800 etop airframes which have better endurance...but 20 less seats.

of the winds that impact the -900...the chronic TW takeoff in lax is probably the most damaging to its performance.

not to worry....word is the 73-10/A-321 will hack it just fine.

 

I agree the 75 is a better airplane for the job but I've flown out to Kona and HNL many times in the 73-900, full pax and never had an issue. Alaska and UAL do have the 73-800 ETOPs which would make it into all the islands without a problem.

 

73-10 can hack it? Same wing, engine and fuel capacity, but heavier airframe. Yeah that will work.

 

it was mostly a TIC observation.

absent some fountain of 'ute' for the 757 there aren't going to be any other options. Except maybe the C-series, or other (newer) WB airframes??

I'm guessing if/when it rolls off the line, the 73-10 will come with a bumped GW, an upgraded engine rating, and maybe even more fuel.

IF the -900 can get airborne off of lax, it usually is satisfactory in making hnl and koa. But that is a big 'IF'. The RATOW TW/KT penalty on the -900 is huge. I think about 1500-1700lb/kt if memory serves.

Understanding most -900 flights LAX to HNL/KOA depart at or near MGTOW, the standard 6-8kt TW lax tolerates in staying in a west operation pretty much hammers the -900s ability to get airborne with a full load.

I'm guessing for UA/AK SEA and SFO are not so limiting in their runway ops.

Anecdotally....have known of flights that sat out on the taxiway for hour(s) waiting for the wind to shift...or at least go calm....to be under the RATOW limit.

And if a crew is filed and requests an opposite direction departure for winds....lax atc will not even start coordinating until you call for taxi...and their standard advisory is 'expect at least 2 hours to coordinate'.

The other hammer is when the -900 is planned at FL260 the whole way to the islands because of ride.....and not so much wind. Its a FL limited airframe on a good day on the top end. But if it cant get into the 30's there is going to be a problem with endurance. This was the situation when the agent came onboard and told me 'we are pulling 40 pax'.

As with the 765...the final growth variants of most airframes result in calculated compromises.

The 737-900 is no different.