Karnak

If regional jobs are "sub standard", then why did you do it?

You should have jumped straight to the mainline, and avoided all that yucky pay and those lousy work rules.

Maybe if nobody lowered themselves to "sub standard" jobs, they wouldn't exist. You blame others for their role in the "Supply & Demand" equation...but not your own.

sailingfun

Not once in the 10 years since PS was really a factor have I heard any mainline pilot say what you posted. Not one single time by anyone. I suspect I am around a lot more mainline pilots than you are.

Gooner

Who are you interacting with from mainline that opposes non rev improvements. At worst they may be disappointed by a degraded retirement benefit, but oppose? You may have heard a super super, like 1 of 14K, minority.

It’s not like we can do anything, we have been fighting company deadhead booking issues for over a year, pretty sure no leverage is being spent screwing the “sub standard” pilot job non rev benefit.

Baradium

I could haves sworn that there have been complaints on this very forum along those lines. And while I don't hear it often, I have heard similar complaints before myself.

Baradium

I thought it was in this thread, but it is in this forum anyway where there was much grinding and gnashing of teeth over that change.

Denny Crane

I view Scope as a big picture deal, not as individual pieces. Did the number of total RJ seats increase or decrease with that agreement? They decreased. You may be correct about the 50 seaters going away then but we will never know for sure. To refute your argument a little bit, IIRC we had agreements with various DCI carriers flying the 50 seaters. To find a way around that and get out the agreements sooner the company needed to offer these carriers some sort of quid pro quo and hence they negotiated an increased amount of 76 seaters. It did cause a lot of 50 seaters to go earlier but you are probably right, a lot of 50 seaters would have been gone eventually. We just don't know exactly when.

I do not know the answer to this question: Has the company parked any more 50 seaters lately or is it at the contractual maximum? I think Delta connection is at the maximum amount of 50 seaters but am not sure.

Overall, with a significant reduction in total RJ lift, I do think we improved small jet Scope on that contract.

Denny

Scoop

Dude,

No one sold anything. Management runs the airline, not DALPA. Yes DALPA can fight certain changes ........ to an extent, but can not tell Management what to do.

Mainline Pilots were pretty much blindsided by the RJ expansion but no one sold anything. In your mind DALPA has a veto on management actions. It would be great if the real world functions as if does in your mind but it does not.

Scoop

sailingfun

[QUOTE=Denny Crane;2558195]I view Scope as a big picture deal, not as individual pieces. Did the number of total RJ seats increase or decrease with that agreement? They decreased. You may be correct about the 50 seaters going away then but we will never know for sure. To refute your argument a little bit, IIRC we had agreements with various DCI carriers flying the 50 seaters. To find a way around that and get out the agreements sooner the company needed to offer these carriers some sort of quid pro quo and hence they negotiated an increased amount of 76 seaters. It did cause a lot of 50 seaters to go earlier but you are probably right, a lot of 50 seaters would have been gone eventually. We just don't know exactly when.

I do not know the answer to this question: Has the company parked any more 50 seaters lately or is it at the contractual maximum? I think Delta connection is at the maximum amount of 50 seaters but am not sure.

Overall, with a significant reduction in total RJ lift, I do think we improved small jet Scope on that contract. Denny (quoteJ

Not to mention that the marketplace would have evolved to match scope. There were discussions about a updated 50 seat airframe and the possibility of reengining current airframes. Just recently bombardier stated they are no longer considering that.
As I have said before I am a results guy. What was the end result of the scope changes in contract 2012. We added more pilots at the mainline than SWA, UAL and AMR combined. I will take that result any day! The forum predicted a much different result.

Mesabah

The 1113c rejection, and the imposed term sheet, only lasts till the end of the bankruptcy. The scope issue would have been dealt with at the NMB.



That would have been a disaster for ALPA, since they would be defending bankruptcy scope changes, smack in the middle of the TWA DFR.

flyallnite

Maybe what you're referring to is the period in which DL sold the 737 classics and cancelled the MD90s, replacing them instead with 50 seat RJs. Nothing was 'sold' for that to happen, the contract simply wasn't written with the RJ in mind.
During that same time, upgrades for FOs were halted for years, while commuter pilots were telling those same FOs that they would be getting those 737s and flying them for Comair, etc. During that time, all mainline service ended at stations like Toledo, and Great Falls, and Chicago MDW. 30 year station employees lost their jobs, replaced by part-time DGS staff who had little training and plenty of turnover. It wasn't long before DLs brand was about as popular as the IRS, and our loyal customers left us for Southwest, JetBlue, and Virgin, who capitalized on the blatant incompetence of the regional operation. Meanwhile, as the furloughs hit, some of those regionals refused to even hire the pilots who's jobs they had replaced... all to feed the ego of those same pilots who bragged about grabbing those 737s.. by golly they we're gonna show those mainline guys who was in charge!

Of course, as those back loaded RJ leases came due, and fuel prices spiked, the whole house of cards came tumbling down, and the execs who repurchased billions of DL stock, now headed to zero, set themselves up with BK proof packages and left the burning building, some even went to Bombardier.

So maybe that's something to do with what you hear when a mainline pilot complains that the regional operation is costing Delta... watching our profits vaporize while some high school dropout tries to push an RJ as the bags sit soaking on the ramp because the next 2 RJs cancelled and the line at the counter is now 120 deep...