Max landing weight maybe, but could have been max ZFW

Skywest guys have been dreaming of this for years. It's the only way they'll grow. It's just a pipedream rumor.

While I don't disagree with the wants and needs of Skywest, I Do disagree it is a pipedream:rolleyes:

Keenster,

This is not a N vs. S issue. I also made less (I flew less) but it does not really mean anything. Imagine how much less you and I (and others) would have made without an hourly rate increase.

I dont understand how the 1.5 above 80 going away negatively affected guys since guys say they are taking home less with a higher pay-rate. The only way to do that is to get paid for less hours making the above 80 hour option seem dubious at best.

We can pick extreme winners and losers from both groups. How about the year 2000 hire prior NW guys who were furloughed for 3 or so years? Getting that time back they went from around 6 or 7 years seniority to 9 or 10 with a 15% or so pay-raise thrown in. I'm sure their W2s are way up year over year but this also does not mean that all N guys out this well. Conversely the NW reserve guys going from 75-70 hours may be making a lot less. Both sides will have winners and losers but if you average it out I think we are all doing better.

Bottom line - We will never be able to prove what would have happened without a merger one way or another. To every guy that says it is a fact that my W2 went down year over year, first off I say bummer, but I then submit the following question: What would have happened to your pay if we did not merge? Since No one, and I do emphatically mean no one (except maybe Nostradamus) can answer that question we are arguing hypotheticals.

Without the merger, and complicated SLI and flow-down issues, would Delta or Northwest have furloughed - unknown.

Without the merger would mainline at each airline have shrunk more - unknown.

Without the merger synergies what would have happened to revenue at a separate Delta and Northwest - unknown.

The Pacific really dried up - would that have affected a stand alone Northwest more adversely - unknown.

Europe also dried up - would that have affected a stand alone Delta more adversely - unknown.

Lets all just look at the train wreck called USAIR and be thankful. UAL and CAL Unions both say our merger is now the Gold Standard of airline mergers from a labor standpoint and for that I am very happy. My seniority in LAX has been fading quickly, bummer, but what would have happened to me without the merger - unknown.

Scoop

And what was the answer? Let me guess - "We don't really like the RJs, but one morning they just sort of showed up - so we figured what the Hell."

Scoop :)

Keen, my understanding with GS's vs 1.5, as discussed a thousand or more pages ago but the total pot of money the pilot group would make is a wash but who was able to get overtime changed. But instead of rehashing this, if someone wants to go... I mean race me to find those pages where that was discussed (answered mostly by slowplay) then we can review what we learned about it. APCF search engine, get ready...

I hadn't thought about it til scoop mentioned but you really do have 2 variables coming into play with pay year to year from 07-2010, and that is the economy and then the merger. Its mind boggling math for me to keep up with my own but it'd be really interesting to take pilots that were over 12 years the whole time and stayed on the same plane and compare credit hours yoy.

I'm sure some planes have lost ground (I fly a lot less this year than last both on reserve with weekends off) and some have gained, I'm thinking the 320 has gained? 320 guys? Making more now than before?

Nope, but care to elaborate??? Wow--that's a big word for me!
Schwanker

That was flattering coming from American. I got to see some of American's enterprise solutions a few years back and those guys are amazing. I can't imagine any airline has anything better than what I saw at American. Then to have them interested in WorldFlight was pretty cool.

We did a lot of things wrong at NWA, but IT was not one of them.

Carl

Do you mean pre-Oley or post-Oley?

Talking to many of the folks like former chief pilots, former fleet leadership teams for -400, and former Directors of Operations is tough because they're gone now with more to follow.

Keenster's reference to the "issue" is exactly right. All LCA's on the -400 wrote a letter with supporting data. Their Delta supervisor responded to their letter by notifying them that he would be seeking their termination from the training command. JG denied the request for termination and all LCA's are still in the training command. Good on JG for doing that.

You asked for examples, and this is just one. Since you guys are fDAL, you're not seeing this stuff and we know that. It's just no way to treat fellow professionals. JG has better things to do than deal with that sort of stuff.

Carl