Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 833892)

Carl

The point is and will remain that throwing grenades here at DAL does not work well. No more no less

You can be disappointed in that statement.

I am aware of the issue and the statement holds true for all parties involved

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 833907)

31L is open again at JFK.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 833885)

Actually, none of the LCA's threatened to quit. They simply wrote what is essentially a "white paper" on their position and included quite a bit a data from numerous studies on fatigue and other issues. When the DAL folks read it and gave no reason as to why they didn't want to change the policy, the meeting did get heated (according to a number of the LCA's I've spoken with that were in the room), but stayed professional. Heated, but professional.

The short answer is that the DAL way of doing things has the guys taking breaks every two hours or so. Besides the obvious issue of flight deck crew members making multiple trips from the cockpit to the rest area, our guys had studies that showed this is not optimal for getting rested. The other area is the DAL policy of the same crew performing both the takeoff and the landing. Since most of the fDAL trips were over and backs, it worked out great. One crew made the takeoff and landing going over, and the other crew did it coming back. Much easier to stay current. Our trips on the 744 and A330 are 10, 11, 12 and 13 day trips where you have crew changes on every leg. This makes it much more difficult to stay current if you are unlucky enough to always be the junior crew while the senior crew makes the takeoff and the landing, then moves on. It's resulting in a huge increase in the need for crew members to get requaled in the sim. Our guys' concern was not only the increased cost of the unnecessary training, but the problem of crews' proficiency.

There are a few other issues (read security and safety related) that don't belong on a public forum, but that is the short version.

Carl

Originally Posted by DAL4EVER (Post 833931)

In the few times I did JFK with the closure, it actually ran smoother than when 31L was open. I bet now that they added 25% to their runway capacity, they figure out how to increase delays by 40% again. That said, I won't know what to do when going down a smooth 31L.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 833885)

The short answer is that the DAL way of doing things has the guys taking breaks every two hours or so.

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 833950)

Source please. The reason I ask is that I know of no policy as to how the breaks are to be conducted. That being said, I have flown several trips recently with north crews, and I will say this: The idea of one FO doing the takeoff and the other doing the landing is a good one. I think that should be adopted. However the idea of the captain ALWAYS getting his choice of break (hence the middle one) is retarded. That means the landing FO would either be wiping sleep out of his eyes on approach or he would have been up for 4-6 hours before landing in the middle of the night. Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude (Post 833954)

I think the 747 guys are right about the crew rest thing, but the Delta guys have the "not invented here" attitude about it. The whole thing sounds like a giant dick measuring contest between the 777 and 747 guys. I'd imagine there are near equal levels of bad behavior from both sides of the fight.