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Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 868193)

OK. Here we go.

From the TWG Advanced Entitlement document:

New Categories

Eight new categories (DTW 777 A/B, MSP M88 A/B, NYC 765 A/B, and SLC 320 A/B) are

opening. The posted vacancies in these categories will be awarded under Section 22 E.1. which
states:
The following vacancies will be awarded simultaneously and in seniority order among
pilots whose standing bid, in DBMS at the closing date and time, contains a preference
for the category(ies) involved:
a. AE,
b. VD,

c. contingent vacancies, and

d. other vacancies that:

1) first became known during the period of the posting of the vacancy notice, and

2) are caused by termination, resignation, or an absence whose anticipated duration is
greater than 120 days.
Exception: A standing bid preference for an AE will not be awarded if such award,
together with any VD/MD(s) for the same category, would create a surplus that would
cause a displacement in the category.
While these categories can be bid and may be awarded via an AE, VD or MD bid, the exception
will not be applicable in this case. This is because these are new categories with no pilots
currently assigned and therefore, no surplus could be created which would trigger the exception
above.
In short, awards to a new category will be filled in seniority order regardless of the award type

(AE, VD or MD).

Since these are new categories, pilots who currently hold a category freeze are

not restricted
from bidding into these new categories, regardless of any remaining freeze (see Section 22 8.A.).
While an existing freeze won’t carry over if awarded one of these new categories, any pilot who
requires initial qualification or transition training due to an AE or VD award to a new category
will incur a category freeze based on that award.

Update Your Mandatory Displacement (MD) Bid Preferences

Along with the vacancies posted in this bid, four categories are being closed (NYC 777 A/B and

SLC M88 A/B). If you are in one of these categories it is vital that you submit an MD bid if you
desire to take advantage of your contractual rights under Section 22 F.13. There is no need to
submit other than an MD bid under these circumstances. In addition, the posted displacements

will

create contingent displacements. Just because there are no displacements posted in your

particular category does not mean you are immune to being displaced. We strongly recommend

that you update your MD bid preferences.

Sorry about the goofy font and formatting. Its from a PDF file.

I believe the part I bolded above your first red quote is what comes into play. Call the union tomorrow.

Denny

Denny,

Had a long talk with CR&P and ALPA during the JAN bid on behalf of a bubba that was being displaced from NYC 777. They told me flat out if your category is being closed, just put in a MD. Since it's an iterative process, AE, and MD are run consecutively.

If your seniority can't hold it, you won't get it. Since its a new category they basically fill the slots in seniority order with those desiring them. If one guy gets it on an AE he can't be bumped by an MD unless the MD is senior and then the whole stack drops down and the computer does another iteration. Its a big if then else loop for you computer geeks out there.

But for sure, don't take any advice off of an anonymous message board. Do your own due diligence. Call ALPA. read the papers they've distributed and/or call CR&P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse (Post 868094)

Wow, now I see the partial up arrow in the bottom of the "X" meaning, "going up ward and onward to great things" I would guess.

You're asking for others to open their minds to imagination yet you state, the NW logo "is one of the last of the great logos." Dude, where's your imagination? Guess all the good songs have been played already as well, huh?:D

Most of 'em have... Steely Dan and Pink Floyd aren't doing much in the studio these days unfortunately.... good observation on your part. :cool::cool:

Oh.. and I was talking about the FedEx logo... but I really did like the NWA logo.. it was very clever. At any rate.. lighten up Francis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 868195)

you cannot displace into a brand spankin' new category.

Denny

I'd bet my left one that you can Denny.
I'll try to find more proof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 868198)

-------
MD's always trump AEs

Normally true. But NOT for new categories.
New categories go in straight seniority order. AEs, MDs and VDs are equal.

The difference between the SLC 7ER category and the SEA 7ER category is every single pilot in the current 767 category will be displaced. They only need to put in an MD bid and leave the AE bid blank. The only reason you would want to AE into it if your currently on the 767 in SLC would be if you know your going to be senior enough to hold it and you want to go to training first since AE's are trained first and MD's are trained in reverse seniority order. Not a big issue here since most going to the ER will already be 767 qualified.

What has been said above is true that the category is filled with AE's then the MD's that can hold it will bump the AE's out. We did this in SLC with the 90/320 swap and that's the way that one went down since they closed one category and opened a new one. I had a blank AE and filled up my MD preferences since I knew I was getting displaced because my category was closing. That allowed me to MD to the 320 and incur no freeze and if I would have been bumped to MSP I would have also had the option of moving costs covered. For a SLC 767 guy it makes no sense to really even do an AE because they know that they will be displaced. If anyone else wants in, then they should use the AE because they probably won't get MD'd into SLC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 868206)

I'd bet my left one that you can Denny.
New categories go in straight seniority order. AEs, MDs and VDs are equal.

My money is on Check Essential. You're right and Scambo and Denny are wrong on this one. But as everyone has said, don't take our words for it. Call the ALPA office and speak to someone who knows for sure.

800-USA-ALPA

Okay, I'll give you that you might be able to displace into the category BUT a new category with no one in it WILL be awarded in senority order whether it is by AE or any displacement. How's that!?!

Denny

PS. I'm not bidding anything anyway!!!:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 868227)

And that's why you've never lost a case!

Enough about important AE stuff.............

I have a lazy man's question (and it's all about me).........

I have a trip tomorrow with ONE leg as the relief pilot with everything else as a deadhead. Do I need to take my entire brain bag or can I get by with my "normal 757 locations" book that will have the two places we're going to be?

I'd look in the FOM, but that's like reading the instructions to assemble something:D Much easier to ask you guys:cool:

Ferd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 868206)

I'd bet my left one that you can Denny.
I'll try to find more proof.

Normally true. But NOT for new categories.
New categories go in straight seniority order. AEs, MDs and VDs are equal.

Didn't see this when I made my last reply. If you are willing to go that far, you win!:D I fold, will not call etc!!!!

Sorry for the controversy. My lips were moving!!:D

Denny