Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Slow I agree 100%. We need to look at the past, reference it and move forward. We do not want to repeat past mistakes, but we should not live there either. It is time to move on an act as one unified group.

The PWA is the PWA, the list of wants is long, so lets start looking at how to do it, and stop placing blame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 872147)

Just a question to the group...do we really have to go down this road yet again?:mad:

No, which is why I let the "comparable contract" stuff go. But when we're actually getting into the "legend of the paycut" stuff, it's hard to sit still. We all live the same dilemma, when we come across some of the weirder "fiction" writing: ignore, or humor?

I see you're also struggling with that decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 872147)

Just a question to the group...do we really have to go down this road yet again?:mad:

Instead of focusing on the past, why don't some of you start looking ahead? Our company just gave an investor update that was pretty positive. The quarter's projected margin is 12-13%, which would provide an annualized 7%-8% if the 4th quarter is flat. They're talking about $260 million in profit sharing. Has anybody else put together that profitable companies in this industry pay better than unprofitable ones?:confused: If you want restoration, profits are the quickest way to get there, imo.

Or we can keep carping back to who had what when and whine...:p

Quik idjut math says with $260 mil in profit sharing pool, that we will end up with about 5.4-6.2% of yearly pay in profit sharing per pilot......

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 872152)

Quik idjut math says with $260 mil in profit sharing pool, that we will end up with about 5.4-6.2% of yearly pay in profit sharing per pilot......

More quick idiot math... $260mil/75,000 employees (?) is $3,467/person. Since this is proportional to W2's, I'm guessing you can roughly double that number for pilots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 872049)

You are incorrect and I'll tell you why. Although FNWA took a raise in hourly pay, we took a hit in work rules which actually equated to a pay cut. Every FNWA pilot I've flown with is making less now than with our previous contract. That is a fact not spin.

Facts don't matter capn. It's too important for alfa to keep up the "we were better than you" stuff. You could show him W-2's and it wouldn't matter.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 872063)

That's weird, because the fNWA pilots I fly with claim to be happy with their overall situation

That's not the subject. Others have posted that fNWA guys had to have their total compensation increased to match DAL. Not true as stated previously. Others also stated that nobody came out of bankruptcy with a better contract and more unified than DAL. Not true either because our contracts were essentially equal and both groups were unified. To say otherwise is simply ignorant, yet it keeps being said.

I'm happy with my overall situation at the new DAL as are most of the guys I fly with. That has nothing to do with the previous factually incorrect postings.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 872064)

The other thing Carl did not mention was the long length of the NWA contract with zero raises.

The NWA contract had annual raises all the way to the end. I would ask what you are talking about, but I'm sure you don't know either.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 872069)

The 13% number was not made up, it was the number that your negotiating team agreed to. At SOC a 757 Captain was at $144 an hour, he is now at $175. All Delta pilots averaged about 83 hours per month pay last year so to equal that pay, at NWA you would have had to get paid 101 hours per month to overcome the pay differential. In 2008, fNWA pilots averaged 20 minutes a month more pay than fDAL pilots, somehow getting to to 18 hours per month extra seems off base.

You have NO idea what you're talking about.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 872188)

OK, fine. The last paragraph is a good place to start. It's a far cry from stating "every other fNWA pilot a fNWA has flown with has taken a paycut" under the new contract. We can't bridge that gap, because there is no way the Capn can substantiate that... so let's not try.

The gist of this had to do with Alfa's assertion that Moak steered us well out of BK, and that he couldn't find an airline that handled itself as well. I don't think it was a dig at NW, because I was kind of thinking... we are NW, and NW is us. But maybe this offended your pride, and you answered "NW did just as well", and we went from there.

So let's step back a second... I think we can all stipulate both groups were unified, and I'll defy anyone to find the "more unified" group. Better yet, instead of defying them, I'll ignore anyone who thinks it's particularly relevant.

As to the question of which group was more effective pre-merger but post-BK, and which contract was better, I read both T/A's, and it looked to me like the NW group made much larger concessions in everything but the pension, for the benefit of the pension. So maybe you executed well on your goals, but maybe our goals were simply very different?

Sounds like you're saying that if we were both given a choice to pick our contract, you'd pick the NW contract. Tell you what: that's fine with me. You're senior, you pick the NW contract, and I'll take the DAL contract that's left over.

How's that?

To back up what Carl had to say, my w2's have declined to the lowest pay I have made since some time in 1992.....the work rules under the Delta PWA were a very surprising disappointment. Any way I vote with Carl.