I agree, although with this semantic exception: ALPA doesn't give up anything with SCOPE - Most DCI carriers are ALPA or are being courted by ALPA. Delta Pilots would be the ones who give up SCOPE and consequently would be the big losers.

I don't think ALPA National gives one hoot (watered down Holiday language) where the SCOPE line is drawn - since they represent the Pilots on both sides of that line.

I personally do not see us giving another inch on SCOPE but then again - I'm in a Holiday state of mind. :)

Scoop

That is very impressive. I was flying last year on both Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day with long sits in ATL. From what I saw, the ATL Chief Pilot spent a good part of his day in the pilot lounge handing out the meal bags and treats baked by his wife. Kudos to him for showing some great leadership!

We keep talking about how many retirements we have coming up between 2015 and 2020. None of these pilots will feel the consequences of a scope concession, but they will all reward from it. A scope concession will come a lot easier than the pilots on this board think. ALPA will not prevent it.

On a different note, Happy Thanksgiving from my crashpad. My short call just ended. Time to drink some beer. I'd cheers, but I don't know how to do the smily face cheers thing.

Those pilots don't add up to 50% of the list. As dark cloud as you want to be, even PG (who is a senior CA in my fleet) stated that scope relief is a no go.... which is what I was referencing earlier when I said that I was thankful for PG. :D

I think about 80% of us on this site are working over turkeygiving. :) You've got a job that thousands of others dream of, be thankful! I just got in from a run on the Amazon and am enjoying talking with my wife on facebook... gotta enjoy what you have!

About to head downstairs and send up some cheers as well:

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_may2008/Cheers.jpg

FWIW, I'm 12-13% from the top of the list, and I won't be bribed to relax our scope clause any more than it already has been. I'm thinking a lot of guys in my seniority range feel the same way.

I agree, I am in the same seniority range. Dalpa is not going to give up scope in a normal negotiation. There is no gun at our head this time. The company knows that also and as I mentioned in a previous post has no real desire for a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline.

I hope you guys are right. I think that when a 40 percent pay raise is placed in front of us for scope concessions, guys will vote differently.

I personally think senior guys are looking for a 40% raise AND Scope TIGHTENING. Many guys with 5-10 years left want to keep their seats, not go backwards, which is exactly what would happen if they voted for any more scope relief. JMO.

The company is not going to offer a 40 percent raise for scope. They would not even increase the raise 10 percent for scope. Just take out a pencil and run the numbers. A 100 seat aircraft is worth something to the company at DCI. Its certainly not worth even a 10 percent raise. They are not going to give out a 1 billion dollar a year raise that 40 percent would be to get 80 million in additional profit.

Thanks to Airtran getting SWA wages via their merger, the baseline for pay at Delta will be Southwest 737 rates, for FOs and Captains. If you fly larger than a 737, it will go up from there. Current 12th year Captain rate over there is $210 per hour (or trip), and 12th year FO makes $147 per hour (or "trip"). That is just basic, and Delta can no longer state that they can't compete thanks to Airtran's lower wages. Our neighbors just got a big raise (or will be) and that is good for all of us, and that is the baseline to start with. Scope will not be erroded either. Delta knows this, and the recent profits won't help them much either. I don't think any DL pilot would vote to give up 100 seaters or more 76 seaters, not even the #1 guy.