I certainly hope so..

I have no idea. It all depends on the environment in which you are negotiating, the competition, and other factors. I just have a feeling that there is a segment of the pilot population that if the TA came back with the Moon, the would demand the Stars too.

What they fail to factor is that the Moon compounded for x years may equal the Moon and Stars by the time you get just Alpha Centauri.

Agreed-however, depending upon time to retirement, some/many/most may not have "X" years. I guess polling results will determine. :)

I understand what you are saying but I have a feeling the TA will include neither the moon or the stars.

Especially if it is negotiated with the mentality demonstrated by ALPA over the past few years. :eek:

Those are the guys we have to reach. They can go either of two ways. They can take the immediate money and maximize their return for the last few years or they can go the the hail mary and sell the rest of us up the river with a scope sale.

Remember, the more people on the list closer to retirement, the fewer people who have a long term interest in the group.

The moon will be outsourced but we will get the stars (as long as you define "get" as a foreign JV).

Definitely a valid point, but first of all not all will take a dump in the hot tub as they are getting out, and second those who will try (and some will try) will be vastly outnumbered for the life of the contract anyway.

If we sell even more of our future down the river for a cookie, it will be because plenty of us collectively in the middle and bottom went along with it.

UCAL is as or more top heavy in that demographic than we are and they are (so far) pushing hard for scope reversals (RJ's and JV's). SWA has its share of that demographic too and they turned down money for better scope.

There is hope. But if we shart the bed going after some bling like the ghost of contracts past, it will be because the middle and bottom went along with it.

I agree with your second paragraph, you may have misunderstood my point. I don't care what Sec. 3 says(well I do, but not until the end).....Getting a W-2 that exceeds the current top tier (UPS/FDX/SWA) with more days off, regardless of aircraft type flown or on reserve or as a lineholder, it should be everyones' goal to achieve wholesale gains, with NO givebacks of any kind.


To the current topic......I doubt a TA will come out that is super heavy $$$ on the top 15% of the list. Not only would that fail Memrat due to the middle and junior, the company wants a deal that will pass, and they know as well as anyone that you have to make 50.1% happy, and trying to hose scope/workrules for a retirement bone won't hit that magic number.

I agree. I think we're so focused on the small-gauge stuff, and perhaps missing this. I am concerned both by the notion of a AF/DAL bid on Virgin Atlantic, and by this idea of helping an Indian carrier that hubs in Burssels but with Indian staff, and runs new, large WB aircraft across the Atlantic.

I don't know to what extent we can influrence carriers joining SkyTeam (I suspect we have little leverage), but we certainly have language concerning JV's and mergers. We're not far from the point where a work stoppage at any airline within Skyteam becomes irrelevant.