Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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I think we have to be careful not to confuse the NMB determination of a "single carrier" or "single transportation system" as it relates to the RLA and what the DOT/FAA consider to be an "air carrier".

They are in competely different parts of the law. I always want to see flying returned to the mainline, but if RAH is forced to cancel its agreement with DAL (which I think is not likely) all it will do is stop the killing of Comair for a little while and probably expand Compass and Skywest in the long term...

It won't stop the company from trying to extend contracts to fly the 255 jets' worth of flying off the DAL pilot seniority list that they are permitted to operate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyBanana (Post 964447)

Go to March bid award. Then look on your address bar. Towards the end it'll say "Results/MAR/mar_reasons_reports". Change MAR/mar to APR/apr. Works on bid packages too.

Cool trick - thanks!

60+ guys on reserve for MD88A in ATL?? I thought we'd be kicking off a lot more flying heading into spring. I still haven't ever seen a copy of the big picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead (Post 964464)

Cool trick - thanks!

60+ guys on reserve for MD88A in ATL?? I thought we'd be kicking off a lot more flying heading into spring. I still haven't ever seen a copy of the big picture.

The "Big Picture" is a hologram that changes as the Earth rotates! :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 964455)

This is not directed at you, but at the thrust of this discussion. If you are upgrading to a new airplane and are having some problems, would you seek advice from a pilot or a lawyer? If you are seeking a complex answer to a complex legal problem would you seek advice from a pilot or a lawyer?

The big uproar of the settlement to the 76 seat grievance resulted from ALPA initially filing a grievance. If the lawyers thought we had a chance in hell to win this case it would be filed. Pilots are smart people and they know lots of stuff, but a man's got to know his limitations. (name the Clint Eastwood movie)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 964477)

Magnum Force. Easy!

Also I agree with that sentiment...I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay a Holiday Inn Express last night either.

Alfa, I agree. Pointing out what "could be" an apples to oranges comparison when it comes to NMB/FAA differences in what they consider to be a "singe air carrier" and how that impacts compliance with the terms of a labor agreement.

I am confident that ALPA will defend our PWA should there be a violation!

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 964477)

Okay a mans got to know his limitations, but by just applying the definitions to the scope section, a violation has potentially occured. Single carrier cements that a violation has occured. RJs are killing us ... Dying aint much of a living. (name the C.E. movie)

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 964445)

Carl, as I have seen first hand, when a no BS violation occurs, DALPA will fight it with vigor.

Like Moak did with the 76 seat interpretation thing? I don't have the wording in front of me right now, but the intention of it should have been clear to anyone. The company saw a way (quite a stretch as I recall) to interpret it differently and once again exploited us with it. Win or lose, we should have fought it because it was the right thing to do, and not because the lawyers wanted to follow the path of least resistance/risk. Instead, we came off looking weak (again) and the lawyers got paid either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 964455)

As far as the FAA is concerned, whoever has "operational control" is the HMFIC and in this case it has been Republic for quite some time.

The issue is the verbiage in the contract, it was written that way for a reason. There will still be several operating certificates.

Some of the A bids are out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 964477)

"Yeah, this OJ case, we don't have a chance and as a lawyer, when we don't have a chance, we walk away."

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__xG2Ro-dlH...IE-COCHRAN.jpg

How much do those ALPA lawyers make again? Did they need more $$ incentive to do their job?

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Issue: Is RAH’s use of non-permitted aircraft in violation of Section 1 of our PWA?

I. Rule:

Quote:

Define air carrier:
Per Section 1.B: “Domestic air carrier” means an air carrier as defined in 49 U.S.C. Section 40102(a)(2).

Per 49 U.S.C. Section 40102(a)(2):
(a) General Definitions.— In this part—
(2) “air carrier” means a citizen of the United States undertaking by any means, directly or indirectly, to provide air transportation.

Define Section 1:
1.C.1: All flying performed by or for the Company or any affiliate will be performed by pilots in
accordance with the terms and conditions of this PWA.

1.C.3: There will be no contracting or subcontracting of any Company flying to any other air carrier or performance of Company flying by pilots of any other air carrier without the prior written consent of the Delta MEC.

1.C.6. “Category A operation” means the operation of a flight segment by a Delta Connection Carrier:
a. that is an affiliate, or
b. using the DL code under an agreement with Delta that is not a prorate agreement.

1.C.8. “Category C operation” means the operation of a flight segment (other than a category B operation) by a Delta Connection Carrier under the DL code pursuant to a prorate agreement with Delta.

40. “Permitted aircraft type” means:
a. a propeller-driven aircraft configured with 70 or fewer passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 70,000 or fewer pounds, and
b. a jet aircraft certificated for operation in the United States for 50 or fewer passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 65,000 or fewer pounds, and
c. one of up to 255 jet aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“70-seat jets”), and
d. one of up to 120 jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”). The number of 76-seat jets may be increased above 120 by three 76-seat jets for each aircraft above the number of aircraft in the baseline fleet operated by the Company (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) as of October 30, 2008. The baseline fleet number will be 440+N, in which is the number of aircraft (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares but not including permitted aircraft types) added to the Company’s baseline fleet from NWA. The number and type of all aircraft in the Company’s fleet on October 30, 2008 will be provided to the Association. The number of 70-seat jets plus 76-seat jets permitted by Section 1 B. 40. may not exceed 255.
Exception: Up to the 36 EMB-175s that were operated and/or ordered by Northwest prior to October 30, 2008 may continue to be operated with up to a maximum gross takeoff weight of 89,000 pounds.
e. once the number of permitted 76-seat jets is established, it will not be reduced.
Exception one: If a pilot on the seniority list with an employment date prior to September 1, 2001 is placed on furlough, the Company will convert all 76-seat jets for operation as 70-seat jets.
Exception two: In the event the flow provisions of NWA LOA 2006-10 and LOA 2006-14 cease to be available, either at the feeder carrier affiliate referenced in such LOAs or at another carrier, the number of jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats specified in Section 1 B. 40. d. will revert to 85.

1.D. Permitted Arrangement with Respect to Category A and C Operations

1. Section 1 C. will not apply to category A or C operations on any permitted aircraft type. Exception: If a permitted aircraft type meets the certificated passenger seat requirement of Section 1 B. 40. b. when first placed into service by a Delta Connection Carrier but is subsequently certificated for operation in the United States with a maximum passenger seating capacity in excess of 50 passenger seats, this permitted aircraft type may continue to be operated by Delta Connection Carriers as long as all Delta Connection Carriers operate such permitted aircraft type with no more than 50 passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 65,000 or fewer pounds at all times.

2. If a domestic air carrier operates both permitted aircraft types and aircraft other than permitted aircraft types, the exemption for that domestic air carrier provided by Section 1 D. 1. will not apply unless:
a. the flying on aircraft other than permitted aircraft types is not performed for the Company within the meaning of Section 1 C., and
b. there is no reduction in the level of the Company’s then existing system scheduled aircraft block hours of flying as the result of the performance of such flying on other than a permitted aircraft type, and
c. the aircraft other than a permitted aircraft type, is either a jet aircraft certificated for operation in the United States for 106 or fewer passenger seats and configured with 97 or fewer passenger seats (provided that any jet aircraft configured with between 71 and 97 passenger seats is not flown for the Company or any affiliate and is not flown on a city pair that is served by the Company or an affiliate) or a propeller driven aircraft configured with 72 or fewer passenger seats, and is operated on its own behalf or pursuant to agreement with an air carrier(s) other than the Company or an affiliate. Exception: If a carrier that performs category A or category C operations acquires an aircraft that would cause the Company to no longer be in compliance with the provisions of Section 1 D. 2. c., the Company will terminate such operations on the date that is the later of the date such aircraft is placed in revenue service, or nine months from the date that the Company first became aware of the potential
acquisition.