Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-13-2011 | 07:02 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
04-13-2011 | 07:07 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: 747-400 Captain
I only know what you write, not what you meant. Here's what you wrote:
If you didn't mean it, then what did you mean?
Carl
Carl
04-13-2011 | 07:09 PM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 767er Captain
I don't care that you went on strike.. I get it... you guys are badasses... we're not worthy to carry your gatorade... but that was then.. this is now.... Basta Ya. (enough already)
04-13-2011 | 07:17 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
04-13-2011 | 07:20 PM
Back on TDY
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
04-13-2011 | 07:25 PM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 767er Captain
04-13-2011 | 08:34 PM
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: DAL 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchip [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Perry/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
I don't assign value to my professional skills, the market place does. It's not really oil and management incompetence that has impacted our career earnings. The biggest factor is deregulation. In a regulated market carriers were guaranteed profits and had little competition on routes. That market no longer exists.
As to our management's competence or lack there of, very few managers could effectively navigate today's pseudo regulated market where government has an ulterior motive and plays favorites. Ex, LGA slot swap.
I'm the second highest paid 4th year 737 pilot in the US. How is that not fairly compensated? Could it be more, sure. But it ain't gonna be 50% more, at least here in Literalville.
Aren't the highlighted portions above indeed the problem. Isn't the "intrinsic value" of a pilot the same today as it was 40 years ago? Are we any less trained, experienced, responsible, professional, and in the end, when the poop hits the fan, the only ones who are left holding the bag as we were 40 years ago?
What is the value of a CEO, a lawyer, a doctor? Don't they all work in a deregulated market?
In 2010 DAL MADE 733 MILLION DOLLARS on bag fees. A fee that DID NOT EXIST 40 years ago. Where did all that money go. That's right spread out to ALL DAL employees................. (they did take a 40% pay cut and had their pensions terminated right?)
It's time as individuals, as professionals and as a UNION to set the MINIMUM bar of what a professional pilot NEEDS to be paid. Not what is "fairly compensated".............
Guys,
No the intrinsic value of a Pilot today is not the same as it was 40 years ago – it is less, for reasons that SATCHIP and ACL have so eloquently pointed out in previous posts.
But, even with the reduced value I feel that we are still being underpaid since our contract was forced upon us in a bankruptcy vice decided in the free market. Hopefully the next contract will correct some of that.
Another often overlooked factor is the “friction” delay inherent in the system. When companies start hiring minimally qualified Co Pilots as they have done, it takes time for the ramifications to manifest themselves. A lot of recent fatal accidents have been at the Regional level and we are just beginning to see any fallout – Think Colgan and the proposed 1500 hour requirement. Although ALPA is for a 500 hour waiver, brilliant!
Someone mentioned a heart surgeon, well the AMA does not try to lower barriers to entry into the medical field, but for some reason even when the Government tries to raise the entry requirements our union sides with the Regional Airline association over their own dues paying members. So maybe that has something to do with why Doctors make so much – although I think most Doctors don’t even have it as good as they used too.
Bottom Line – Pilots may not be worth what they were 40 years ago – but we are still worth more than what our current Bankruptcy level compensation pays.
Scoop
Originally Posted by satchip [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Perry/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
I don't assign value to my professional skills, the market place does. It's not really oil and management incompetence that has impacted our career earnings. The biggest factor is deregulation. In a regulated market carriers were guaranteed profits and had little competition on routes. That market no longer exists.
As to our management's competence or lack there of, very few managers could effectively navigate today's pseudo regulated market where government has an ulterior motive and plays favorites. Ex, LGA slot swap.
I'm the second highest paid 4th year 737 pilot in the US. How is that not fairly compensated? Could it be more, sure. But it ain't gonna be 50% more, at least here in Literalville.
Aren't the highlighted portions above indeed the problem. Isn't the "intrinsic value" of a pilot the same today as it was 40 years ago? Are we any less trained, experienced, responsible, professional, and in the end, when the poop hits the fan, the only ones who are left holding the bag as we were 40 years ago?
What is the value of a CEO, a lawyer, a doctor? Don't they all work in a deregulated market?
In 2010 DAL MADE 733 MILLION DOLLARS on bag fees. A fee that DID NOT EXIST 40 years ago. Where did all that money go. That's right spread out to ALL DAL employees................. (they did take a 40% pay cut and had their pensions terminated right?)
It's time as individuals, as professionals and as a UNION to set the MINIMUM bar of what a professional pilot NEEDS to be paid. Not what is "fairly compensated".............
Guys,
No the intrinsic value of a Pilot today is not the same as it was 40 years ago – it is less, for reasons that SATCHIP and ACL have so eloquently pointed out in previous posts.
But, even with the reduced value I feel that we are still being underpaid since our contract was forced upon us in a bankruptcy vice decided in the free market. Hopefully the next contract will correct some of that.
Another often overlooked factor is the “friction” delay inherent in the system. When companies start hiring minimally qualified Co Pilots as they have done, it takes time for the ramifications to manifest themselves. A lot of recent fatal accidents have been at the Regional level and we are just beginning to see any fallout – Think Colgan and the proposed 1500 hour requirement. Although ALPA is for a 500 hour waiver, brilliant!
Someone mentioned a heart surgeon, well the AMA does not try to lower barriers to entry into the medical field, but for some reason even when the Government tries to raise the entry requirements our union sides with the Regional Airline association over their own dues paying members. So maybe that has something to do with why Doctors make so much – although I think most Doctors don’t even have it as good as they used too.
Bottom Line – Pilots may not be worth what they were 40 years ago – but we are still worth more than what our current Bankruptcy level compensation pays.
Scoop
04-13-2011 | 09:30 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: DL 7ER F/O
It has been insinuated on here that 'all' south guys go along with tsquare's opinion of the NW strike and I want to say that is NOT the case at all. The north guys put it on the line for what they believed in and I for one admire them for going thru all of that and they deserve praise for having the where with all to pull it off. Those waters have not been tested by the south side so to diminish what the north went thru is an insult in my book.
ACL, normally I agree with you but on this republic thing, if ALPA cannot get this right for the 12,000 of us dues paying members I will be excusing myself from their ranks and calling the DPA folks to see what I can do to help them out.
This crap has gone on too long and has to stop, NOW!!!
ACL, normally I agree with you but on this republic thing, if ALPA cannot get this right for the 12,000 of us dues paying members I will be excusing myself from their ranks and calling the DPA folks to see what I can do to help them out.
This crap has gone on too long and has to stop, NOW!!!
04-13-2011 | 09:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,724
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Here's my conclusion:
If the status of single carrier for RAH doesn't in fact violate our PWA Section 1 language, then it goes to show just how weak our current Section 1 really is.
Either we have a good contract crafted by legal experts that is enforceable and means what it says, or our contract appears to cover many bases but when it comes right down to it the intent of the language isn't enforceable.
Cheers
George
If the status of single carrier for RAH doesn't in fact violate our PWA Section 1 language, then it goes to show just how weak our current Section 1 really is.
Either we have a good contract crafted by legal experts that is enforceable and means what it says, or our contract appears to cover many bases but when it comes right down to it the intent of the language isn't enforceable.
Cheers
George
04-13-2011 | 09:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: DL 7ER F/O
I specifically remember hearing the words, "industry leading scope clause" when our contract was being sold to us years ago. Industry leading for whom is the question I want answered now.
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