Yes I agree, there will have to be a mechanism to end it but it should be written down on paper.

I ask really because I'd hate to think our company couldn't afford it like SWA can, or that DALPA couldn't fight AND KEEP it like SWAPA can or that our pilots are not as worthy of such a contract like SWA/AAI pilots are.

How are we supposed to sunset scope when we cannot even stop the company from signing more long-term agreements? We need a huge change in strategy. Constructive engagement is not working with regards to scope (I personally think constructive engagement is not working for anything, but that's a different debate).

Apologies if this has been posted before.

Video link to Captain Sullenberger on Real Time with Bill Maher on April 8. Great discussion of pay cuts, Colgan Air in Buffalo, etc.

I wonder if Sully is going to be vocal in the upcoming contract issues at the various carriers.

LiveLeak.com - Captain "Sully" Sullenberger on Bill Maher 08 April 2011

Hey FTB,

Any chance you might have the time to put together a nice spreadsheet showing the total cost of just our payrates to the company and then add the 32% raise. I can't remember if you had done this in the past or not, but thought I saw. What I was thinking was a breakdown of actual pilots in each category multiplied by the average hours payed per month (and 87 seems way to high) multiplied by the hourly rate. I just think that some real useful data like that would help to identify if a 32% raise is really out of line or not. I really don't know, I certainly want that raise and feel I deserve more than that, but would like to see the numbers back it up.

I would do it but can only break away long enough to check in here a few times.

Sort of... how about if DC9 pay = SWA 717 pay?

If you go by that the SWAPA welcome package SWA A's average $230K and B's average $140K with 18 days off a month. If you wanted to make $230K a year on 70 hour average you're looking at $273/hr (assuming of course a pre-1999 hire). That'd be your WB A's. However, if the average pilot got 87 hours of CREDIT per month then you'd need to bring the DC9 pay up to $220/hr or $10 above the number I have set here.

As to FO's make $140K. Again for a 9 FO it won't happen on 70 hours of min pay but 87 hours it probably would if the average is as I guess around 7 years.

That's my guess.

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1303871079

With all the posts sometimes you can miss a few. So I'll repost this exchange:

At the risk of sounding redundant, where can I independently verify that number?

Carl

This is from the Compass thread on the regionals page. Apparently, this is a new hire Compass pilot.

You know FTB, I'm struck by this post in one very important way. It's not the accuracy of what you post, it's the fact that you've posted it instead of DALPA. This is the sort of thing that should be Exhibit A in the process of having Delta pilots understand where we need to be just to compare equally to the pilots of our direct competitor. Instead, we get lessons on how to read a balance sheet.

Sigh,

Carl

Carl did a great job of making up words I did not say and then twisting it into some conspiracy theory. Here is the flaw in Carl's argument; if I really ignored the majority and only did what I wanted, why did the vast majority (over 90%) of my council approve of my work? Were they all fooled? I still see people that thank me for my work during a very difficult time. That is what made all the hassle worthwhile.

I was wrong to personalize this. I shouldn't have said "you" I should have just left it to this webboard and the ALPA webboard as a group. The issues discussed here and the opinions that are the majority here do not match the majority of the pilot group. They don't match the majority of the pilots I fly with. They don't match the majority of the pilots that I talked to in the pilot lounge, at social meetings, flying the line, calling on the phone, and all the other ways I reached out to hear the views of my pilots. Surely you would concede that the number of pilots that post often on this board and the ALPA board are a small percentage of the total pilot group.

I think you are a smart guy and you should probably get involved in the union. Again, I apologize for making it personal with you. Sign up for some committee work and find out how the union works. You will find a bunch of guys just like you that are busting their humps to get more for the pilots. You will also find that if there were any easy answers, people would have just done it. The issues are much more complicated than they seem, kind of like how flying a jet is more complicated than pushing the autopilot button. Every organization needs new blood to keep the energy up.

This is the familiar response from you and slowplay, etal. The truth is that I always use your exact words and in full context. Your problem is that you're not used to your own words being read back to you.

That would be a flaw in my argument if I had actually made that argument. But this is just another of your straw man arguments that you get to knock down.

I NEVER said you ignored the majority. My thesis from your own words is that you probably do what many elected leaders do. First, you control the polling data so that the people you represent never get to see it. Second, when you realize that you've been tasked by your higher ups to advocate a position deeply unpopular by those you represent, you begin the "education" process. To those that buy your "education" they are made to feel like they're part of the family. To those who don't buy it, you make them feel like they are members of the flat earth society and try to shame them from their beliefs. If shame doesn't work, you simply tell them that their loony opinions are in the very small minority, and you have the data to prove it...if only you were allowed to show them.

This activitiy takes a lot of engagement with those you represent, and you could never be accused of ignoring the majority. What you (metaphorically speaking) can be accused of is falsely portraying the silent majority as the vocal minority.

My personal experience is just the opposite. Of all the pilots I interact with on the line, commuting and in crew lounges, almost none believe ALPA is currently working for their best interests. But my anectdotes are no better than your anectdotes.

Agreed.

Carl