Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-29-2011 | 04:35 PM
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From: 4A2FU
06-29-2011 | 04:39 PM
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
Uh, not exactly.
According to APC pay tables:
AirTran 737 rate:$163
Delta 737 rate: $174
Delta 747 rate: $217
AirTran is being operated as a wholly owned subsidiary (Guadalupe holdings). I expect that they will eventually come under the SWA contract/pay rates, but there hasn't been a JCBA negotiated. The history of negotiating that document isn't very pretty for major/national airlines. AAA/AWA have been at it since 2005. UAL/CAL have been at it since May of 2010. The SWA/AAI integration has and will continue to sorely test the "culture" just like it has everywhere else. The threads on this board are proof of that.
According to APC pay tables:
AirTran 737 rate:$163
Delta 737 rate: $174
Delta 747 rate: $217
AirTran is being operated as a wholly owned subsidiary (Guadalupe holdings). I expect that they will eventually come under the SWA contract/pay rates, but there hasn't been a JCBA negotiated. The history of negotiating that document isn't very pretty for major/national airlines. AAA/AWA have been at it since 2005. UAL/CAL have been at it since May of 2010. The SWA/AAI integration has and will continue to sorely test the "culture" just like it has everywhere else. The threads on this board are proof of that.
06-29-2011 | 04:42 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
06-29-2011 | 04:44 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Slow, why didn't you post the SWA CA rates for comparison? That would draw a sharper picture for us all...ie, if their CA's are operating through ATL with pay rates higher than DAL's 74 CA's doing the exact same thing, albeit in a much larger and international jet, I want to know that! Are you artfully leaving out some of the detes?
Carl
06-29-2011 | 04:45 PM
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Just because DAL gave you guys parity on day 1, don't think that is typical. I suspect AirTran guys will phase in over ~3 years to reach SWA pay parity. Mark my word.
You were lucky... they won't be.
06-29-2011 | 04:47 PM
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From: DAL 330
Our NO votes are the single most important thing for us to all remember when it gets to crunch time about 18 months from now. It will be important, but extremely difficult for those who've never been through a Section 6 process before. At crunch time, our union reps will come out with scare tactics like you and your wives have never seen before. They will talk of things like "A NO vote will ruin everything", and "A NO vote will mean the end of the MEC and negotiating committee and we'll have to start over from ground zero after the new elections", and "A NO vote will show such division in our pilot group that management's next offer will be FAR WORSE than this one", etc., etc...
This will of course all be complete BS, but it WILL happen. When it does, be ready...and vote NO.
Carl
This will of course all be complete BS, but it WILL happen. When it does, be ready...and vote NO.
Carl
Carl is correct. The simple truth is that if we are not willing to risk anything - we will probably not gain much. A few month ago I flew with a Captain who said C2000 rates were his minimum. I asked him if he would be willing to strike over it. He said no. I said Hmmmmm????
When guys ask me what number I would like to see I say I don't have a number. I will not make a decision until I see the "whole package." A 50% pay-raise does me little good if we cave on Scope. Conversely a smaller raise with tight scope, better vacation and training minimums, higher 401K, 75 hour reserve minimum etc could be much more attractive.
The devil is in the details. We fell for the "Big $$$" on C2000 and gave up a ton of Scope. The $$$$ soon disappeared but our Scope failure (my opinion) unfortunately, is still around. Pay-rates are very important, probably the most important single issue, but the contract must be look at in total.
Scoop
06-29-2011 | 04:58 PM
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Because, as usual, he's making the same case management will try to make and for some unfathomable reason(s) he seems to be trying to keep our expectations low.
And, BTW, don't forget that you can't really compare rates with SWA because of the way they are paid (TFP). You have to look at their "hourly" rate and then realize they are getting paid a whole lot more of those than we are. Easier to just look at the average MD-88/90 Captain at Delta making about $150k, and the average SWA Captain (doing essentially the same type of flying) is making over $230k. For those of you in Rio Linda/Herndon... that's an $80,000 difference!
And, BTW, don't forget that you can't really compare rates with SWA because of the way they are paid (TFP). You have to look at their "hourly" rate and then realize they are getting paid a whole lot more of those than we are. Easier to just look at the average MD-88/90 Captain at Delta making about $150k, and the average SWA Captain (doing essentially the same type of flying) is making over $230k. For those of you in Rio Linda/Herndon... that's an $80,000 difference!
06-29-2011 | 05:07 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
You would.
Because SWAPA wants it and Gary Kelly is a smart man. And by the way, it won't be 2013, it'll be sooner.
Our pay RATE parity with you guys was a pay cut for NWA pilots.
We'll see.
NWA pilots weren't lucky. I don't feel lucky right now. I'll bet many NWA pilots don't feel lucky right now.
Carl
NWA pilots weren't lucky. I don't feel lucky right now. I'll bet many NWA pilots don't feel lucky right now.
Carl
06-29-2011 | 05:21 PM
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blah, blah, blah.....
blah, blah, blah....
Carl, your rhetoric bores me.
Carl, your rhetoric bores me.
06-29-2011 | 05:53 PM
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From: A-320A
Carl is correct. The simple truth is that if we are not willing to risk anything - we will probably not gain much. A few month ago I flew with a Captain who said C2000 rates were his minimum. I asked him if he would be willing to strike over it. He said no. I said Hmmmmm????
When guys ask me what number I would like to see I say I don't have a number. I will not make a decision until I see the "whole package." A 50% pay-raise does me little good if we cave on Scope. Conversely a smaller raise with tight scope, better vacation and training minimums, higher 401K, 75 hour reserve minimum etc could be much more attractive.
The devil is in the details. We fell for the "Big $$$" on C2000 and gave up a ton of Scope. The $$$$ soon disappeared but our Scope failure (my opinion) unfortunately, is still around. Pay-rates are very important, probably the most important single issue, but the contract must be look at in total.
Scoop
When guys ask me what number I would like to see I say I don't have a number. I will not make a decision until I see the "whole package." A 50% pay-raise does me little good if we cave on Scope. Conversely a smaller raise with tight scope, better vacation and training minimums, higher 401K, 75 hour reserve minimum etc could be much more attractive.
The devil is in the details. We fell for the "Big $$$" on C2000 and gave up a ton of Scope. The $$$$ soon disappeared but our Scope failure (my opinion) unfortunately, is still around. Pay-rates are very important, probably the most important single issue, but the contract must be look at in total.
Scoop
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