Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1016000)

So what is the total mainline fleet number now and more importantly how is it calculated (WRT parked planes, etc).

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1016012)

Neither is SWA...

Originally Posted by FlyingViking (Post 1016005)

Guys, PLEASE stop comparing us to SWA ! We are not a domestic low cost carrier, we are the second biggest airline in the world. Delta is known for being the best place a pilot could get hired. There is no way we should try to reach the same level as a domestic low cost carrier, we should be way above. Keep this up (and ALPA on board) and we will be screaming for Spirit wages by next contract. Wheter you like it or not, it is time for a serious attitude adjustment among our representation. Status quo ain't cutting it anymore !

Originally Posted by FlyingViking (Post 1016022)

Since when?

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1016040)

Go fare shopping. They haven't been a LCC for quite some time. They don't even advertise as such anymore. They haven't for at least 2 years.

Originally Posted by FlyingViking (Post 1016005)

Guys, PLEASE stop comparing us to SWA ! We are not a domestic low cost carrier, we are the second biggest airline in the world. Delta is known for being the best place a pilot could get hired. There is no way we should try to reach the same level as a domestic low cost carrier, we should be way above. Keep this up (and ALPA on board) and we will be screaming for Spirit wages by next contract. Wheter you like it or not, it is time for a serious attitude adjustment among our representation. Status quo ain't cutting it anymore !

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1016044)

Here's the thought Viking,

SWA is reportedly getting paid an average of, what, $230K in the left and $140K in the right seat of a 117-137 seat jet with full scope is a pretty good wage is it not?

In fact, so good, we'd like to have that plus some just cuz, on equivalent aircraft. Lift the bottom equivalent jet to SWA+ rates and everyone shoots up proportionally to the level you're probably seeking.

We're looking at what, a half a billion in base wage increases for the year by asking for no less than parity with SWA... and AirTran. Sure we can demand 2 billion in wage increases but that's kind of like the argument with min wage? Why is $5/hr bad but $7 okay? Says who? Why not $25/hr? At some point you have to concede to what is plausible while ensuring it's C2000K all over again with our pay wages a huge target to be reduced.

So SWA+ is about a 30% or 40% pay increase depending on how you crunch the numbers. Now just bring up that you want a 40% pay increase and some will call you nuts. Bring up SWA pay and they're all for it.

So we're just trying to leverage the fact that our #1 competition at the worlds busiest airport is paying their DC-9-30 pilots more than our 747-400 and 777-200 pilots not to mention our MD89, DC9, A320 and 737 pilots doing equivalent work. No longer do we have to deal with "Well, you want pay raises but we've got to compete against AirTran..."

We're using and abusing SWA/AAI to move the discussion towards significant increases that if denied by anyone brings up a legitimate question - why should a Delta pilot get paid less than a SWA/AAI pilot?

Are our pilots not as worthy as their pilots or is our airline not as good as theirs?

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1015897)

Okay. Let's look at that for a moment.

According to SWA's welcome packet for the ValuTran pilots, the average SWA Captain makes over $230,000 per year. What would it take to increase a Delta MD-88/90 Captain's pay to $230,000?

The current 12 year MD-88 and MD-90 Captain rates average to $163.17/hour. Let's assume the flying is split 50/50 between the 88 and the 90 (that's probably a little generous). At 75 hours per month, our MD-88/90 Captain would make $146,853 for the year. At 80 hours per month, he would make $156,643.20 for the year.

To bring those numbers up to $230,000 would take the following percentage increases:

$146,853 + 57% = $230,000

$156,643.20 + 47% = $230,000

Sounds to me like we need quite a bit more than a 25-30% increase to get to "parity" with SWA.

Oh... and you mentioned C2K in another post. To get the current MD-88 Captain rate to the C2K MD-88 Captain rate, it would take a 47% increase. And that's not factoring in inflation. If you factor that in, it would take a 70% increase.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1016044)

Here's the thought Viking,

SWA is reportedly getting paid an average of, what, $230K in the left and $140K in the right seat of a 117-137 seat jet with full scope is a pretty good wage is it not?

In fact, so good, we'd like to have that plus some just cuz, on equivalent aircraft. Lift the bottom equivalent jet to SWA+ rates and everyone shoots up proportionally to the level you're probably seeking.

We're looking at what, a half a billion in base wage increases for the year by asking for no less than parity with SWA... and AirTran. Sure we can demand 2 billion in wage increases but that's kind of like the argument with min wage? Why is $5/hr bad but $7 okay? Says who? Why not $25/hr? At some point you have to concede to what is plausible while ensuring it's C2000K all over again with our pay wages a huge target to be reduced.

So SWA+ is about a 30% or 40% pay increase depending on how you crunch the numbers. Now just bring up that you want a 40% pay increase and some will call you nuts. Bring up SWA pay and they're all for it.

So we're just trying to leverage the fact that our #1 competition at the worlds busiest airport is paying their DC-9-30 pilots more than our 747-400 and 777-200 pilots not to mention our MD89, DC9, A320 and 737 pilots doing equivalent work. No longer do we have to deal with "Well, you want pay raises but we've got to compete against AirTran..."

We're using and abusing SWA/AAI to move the discussion towards significant increases that if denied by anyone brings up a legitimate question - why should a Delta pilot get paid less than a SWA/AAI pilot?

Are our pilots not as worthy as their pilots or is our airline not as good as theirs?