Yes, I was using reserve rates at min guarantee. The SWA pay system is foreign not to mention gaming the system on top of that is really too much for my small brain to handle.

I completely believe the $230K number but I don't how to quantify it back to us because I don't know our averages here when you count WSing, GSing, trip parking and so forth. I'd be interested in throwing out the top and bottom percentile and seeing what the median comes out to be at both carriers.

So would a 30-40% raise of hourly rates end up creating an average of $230K at DAL since it seems as if there are many pilots who, like maybe SWA pilots, know how to get high credit for given amount of flight hours.

I just didn't know how to quantify it so I've been using the lower % increase.

I understand.

I'm just trying to figure out how to frame an argument and the fact SWA bought out AAI and now AAI will be at SWA rates is useful.

Not to mention SWA, damnit somewhere on youtube and I can't find it to post it, made a commercial ridiculing RJ's.

Great pay and great scope and an airline that see's ticket pricing like a legacy is what is replacing AirTran here in Mecca. That's a great thing.

Just trying to leverage it so that the 88 = SWA pay and the tide lifts all boats. In one tiny way it's a framing argument for our own group.

Just ask a pilot, 30, 40, 70% pay raise? They know better. Like sailing mentioned, the opener will be 3%. They know 30-70% is unaffordable, C2K rates plus inflation won't happen, we'd lose the PR battle and go on strike and be broken... but say SWA+, all for it.

Equal pay for equal work. Humorous sexual context aside, there is something to be said for equal pay for equal work. You don't have to like it, just say it.

FV,

I usually agree with you, but I don't agree with your point on this one at all. Because of their pay being so much higher, SWA is getting the top tier pilot candidates these days. They've already passed "Riddle and military training" AND a 73 type.

I agree we should be paid more than they are, but you're looking at a minimum of +50% just to match them. LM laughed at a sim instructor for suggesting we would get even +30%. There are others here who would argue the same thing. (Although those folks have become curiously quiet on the subject since SWA released their ValuTran welcome packet and the cat got out of the bag about how much more they're making than we are.)

DALPA should have this data ( average pay) as SWAPA does.

Okay... got it. Thanks.

I guess the way I look at it is from a macro perspective. I don't really care all that much how the sausage is made. According to SWAPA's data (in their ValuTran welcome packet), the average SWA Captain is making over $230K per year and is averaging working 12 days per month to do it. To me, that's the bottom line... how much do I make and how many days do I have to work to make it. I don't mind working hard while I'm at work... as long as I can get adequate rest. And for us... for every guy who white slips, green slips, etc. there's probably another guy who just flies minimum time. I'd be very surprised if it averaged out any more than about 75 hours per month... 80 tops. So, again, it still looks to me like the reality is it would take somewhere between a 47% and 57% increase to bring us to pay parity with SWA.

You know what would be a peculiar situation and this gets back to 88's point of the true average SWA salary, but what if DAL got the 717s from SWA/AAI post AAI pilots getting pay parity and before we get a contract.

DAL pilots would be flying an AirTran airplane for $40-$50K less per year and per seat than the AirTran pilots were.

Now that would ruffle some feathers because lost in the %s talk is something tangible and that is SWA pays their reserve domestic 737 pilots more than DAL 777/747 reserve pilots who could on a 2 hour notice fly their jet to the other side of the world. And that we could end up flying their airplanes for $40-$50K less.

Not to sound like a broken record but this SWA/AAI merger is very useful to us and to a good extent, Delta. I think we'll all benefit in time. Not saying Carl or T have to give em' a hug, just ask for equal pay for equal work.... plus, unless of course they want to get rid of all outsourced flying... then maybe 1:1.

Strike fund ready!!!! :mad: :mad:

Easy big boy - that's a little pretentious. If you're trying to argue that you can get a job at SWA just for stumbling through a 737 type ride, you're sorely mistaken. It's a tough job to get with 10,000 hours.

Their hiring minimums are higher than Delta's as well.

I am not sure where some of the wild numbers being put out here come from. To match SWA in pay if you compare their 737 rate to ours at the amendable date of our contract will require about a 15 percent raise in direct pay rates. If you add the value of the DC contribution to the mix then the raise would only have to be around 9 percent. If we go to the company demanding SW compensation the company might just say no problem. Here is their total block hour cost per pilot. We will be glad to pay you that!!!
Hint, Their total block hour cost verses ours is not that far apart. We probably don't want to go there.

But we shouldn't try to match 737 rates to our 737 rates because of mission profiles are different especially when you consider the 717. The only aircraft of same size and mission is the DC9 and their 717.

Not to mention if we include DC contribution then theirs has to be included plus factor in scope.

Because if we give up scope we get a raise, so SWA+scope reparations.