Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-20-2011, 05:24 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Hey, I didn't bring it up 
We have just broken new ground with where I said it was heading: flow throughs. Industry leading. I will be very interested to see where AA ends up with this. That gets regional guys, the majority of them that want it anyway, where they want to be in the fairest manner to the mainline guys who have already been there and done that. Flow through was suggested during the prep for C2K but was snubbed by both MECs. After all, they wanted to follow their checklist---as they flew their airplane into the ground.
Compel the company to take their product back, and bring other companies on board with taking THEIR product back, do not let go of any more flying, and negotiate for the cancellation of feeder contracts as they come up for renewal. Elect leadership which will carry through on their promises.
We have just broken new ground with where I said it was heading: flow throughs. Industry leading. I will be very interested to see where AA ends up with this. That gets regional guys, the majority of them that want it anyway, where they want to be in the fairest manner to the mainline guys who have already been there and done that. Flow through was suggested during the prep for C2K but was snubbed by both MECs. After all, they wanted to follow their checklist---as they flew their airplane into the ground.
Compel the company to take their product back, and bring other companies on board with taking THEIR product back, do not let go of any more flying, and negotiate for the cancellation of feeder contracts as they come up for renewal. Elect leadership which will carry through on their promises.
I know if I was a Rep, I would be championing a return of the flying and at a minimum a sunset off all of the DCI CPA's as they came up for renewal. Put the rat back in the sewer.
As for flows, they alone do nothing for leverage or unity. They still allow the flying to stay off the list. If you had an agreement to park jets at the DCI level as pilots flowed, that would be one thing, but absent any sort of deal like that, it is good for those pilots that want to come to Ma Delta, but not good for our leverage, or our product.
07-20-2011, 05:25 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: CRJ Captain
Posts: 1,406
ok guys i have a couple questions. I have heard the supposed rumors about bringing 70 seat plus planes along with pilots onto the DAL list
My questions would be this:
Would this be for ALPA only carriers?
Would this be for only the pilots who are currently flying these planes (what if someone bids a 200 for qol purposes)
I always thought a good idea would be to take all DCI alpa carriers and merge them DOH and then take that list and staple it to the bottom. Those regional captains would not lose their seats unless they chose to bid FO on a mainline aircraft for a 10 year period.
The problem lies in companies like ASA and PInnacle that fly for more than just Delta, how do you combine them? A seniority bid?
What are your guys thoughts at mainline on this matter?
My questions would be this:
Would this be for ALPA only carriers?
Would this be for only the pilots who are currently flying these planes (what if someone bids a 200 for qol purposes)
I always thought a good idea would be to take all DCI alpa carriers and merge them DOH and then take that list and staple it to the bottom. Those regional captains would not lose their seats unless they chose to bid FO on a mainline aircraft for a 10 year period.
The problem lies in companies like ASA and PInnacle that fly for more than just Delta, how do you combine them? A seniority bid?
What are your guys thoughts at mainline on this matter?
07-20-2011, 05:25 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
The two most restrictive scope languages were American and USAirways...Also the two that furloughed the most pilots for the longest time...Which major furloughed the least for the least amount of time? DELTA!
07-20-2011, 05:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Bar, I was very much a supporter of "unity and scope restoration"....However I realized that you and I are in the minority...You decided to bail to Delta, and I decided to circle my wagons here at ASA...We are BOTH victims of several decades of failed ALPA policy. I respect you and your opinion, and I understand why you don't respect my position...There was only so long that I was going to attack those windmills....I am now focused on growing my company as you should be focused on growing your company....That puts on opposite sides of the fence...This is the huge failure of this "ALPA apartheid"...Much like the civil war, both sides have a good point...
07-20-2011, 05:33 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
ok guys i have a couple questions. I have heard the supposed rumors about bringing 70 seat plus planes along with pilots onto the DAL list
My questions would be this:
Would this be for ALPA only carriers?
Would this be for only the pilots who are currently flying these planes (what if someone bids a 200 for qol purposes)
I always thought a good idea would be to take all DCI alpa carriers and merge them DOH and then take that list and staple it to the bottom. Those regional captains would not lose their seats unless they chose to bid FO on a mainline aircraft for a 10 year period.
The problem lies in companies like ASA and PInnacle that fly for more than just Delta, how do you combine them? A seniority bid?
What are your guys thoughts at mainline on this matter?
My questions would be this:
Would this be for ALPA only carriers?
Would this be for only the pilots who are currently flying these planes (what if someone bids a 200 for qol purposes)
I always thought a good idea would be to take all DCI alpa carriers and merge them DOH and then take that list and staple it to the bottom. Those regional captains would not lose their seats unless they chose to bid FO on a mainline aircraft for a 10 year period.
The problem lies in companies like ASA and PInnacle that fly for more than just Delta, how do you combine them? A seniority bid?
What are your guys thoughts at mainline on this matter?
It would be just speculation, and frankly probably not wise to comment.
Who knows what would show up in a SLI hearing.
07-20-2011, 05:34 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
Holy Crap, Joe and Brakechatter (great handle BTW) making sense!
Maybe the second coming of the Comair Bogeyman is a sign!
OK, this is freaking me out.
Maybe the second coming of the Comair Bogeyman is a sign!
OK, this is freaking me out.
07-20-2011, 05:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Why would there be documentation? COMAIR and ASA were just following the process, right? There had to be a PID prior to documentation, right?
These "inexperienced" MECs, with the lawyers and the RJDC watching closely, needed the commitment of a PID prior to documenting their fair version of the list. After all, they were just following the checklist. Once the commitment of a PID came down, and it was correctly decided that napkins bearing the Delta logo do NOT constitute operational integration, I
suspect it would have been quite obvious just what the "MECs" had in mind with regards to fair integration. As we have seen, nobody has any
idea just what an arbitrator will do-something some people, NOT to
include CG and MP, have told me that this is exactly what the "MECs", the RJDC, and the RJDC lawyers were counting on.
Interesting how you would even want to associate with Delta pilots, let alone have the desire to become one of us.
These "inexperienced" MECs, with the lawyers and the RJDC watching closely, needed the commitment of a PID prior to documenting their fair version of the list. After all, they were just following the checklist. Once the commitment of a PID came down, and it was correctly decided that napkins bearing the Delta logo do NOT constitute operational integration, I
suspect it would have been quite obvious just what the "MECs" had in mind with regards to fair integration. As we have seen, nobody has any
idea just what an arbitrator will do-something some people, NOT to
include CG and MP, have told me that this is exactly what the "MECs", the RJDC, and the RJDC lawyers were counting on.
Interesting how you would even want to associate with Delta pilots, let alone have the desire to become one of us.
07-20-2011, 05:35 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
07-20-2011, 05:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
07-20-2011, 05:38 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Reality is that we need to find a way to increase the fulcrum we use as leverage. Step one is to fly more of your flying. That creates instant leverage.
As for the past, I prefer to leave the past in the past and work for future results. I want to take this profession forward. There are lessons to be learned, no matter whose version of history we choose to look at. At the end of the day we still did not integrate any part of the DCI operation. Look at the failures, and when the next opportunity arises, look at how we can go in to the opportunity devoid of ego. Ego kills more opportunities than anything.
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