Sparkler,

That is extremely offensive to suggest that all 5000 fNWA pilots support DPA. It is also offensive to suggest that the fDAL pilots who do couldn't figure out they don't like ALPA all on their own.

DPA fails on it's own lack of merits but commentary like yours, likely from an ALPA operative probably wins more converts than it turns away.

 

Brake,

You're wrong, as is your time line. Were any of your new hire FO sources on any Committees, or even employed in 1999-2000? Most of the first hand sources are now dead, or retired.

Anything done by a committee, or coalition, or legal effort generates documentation. With regard to this subject, there are boxes. While there is an honest debate we can make about the merits of "operational integration," the resurrection of the Comair bogeyman is a non sequitur. It just did not happen.

The RJDC was a response to ALPA locking ASA & Comair out of scope negotiations concerning the flying they performed permitted under our PWA. That did not happen until after the denial of the PID and after the ratification of contract 2000.

They would have had no reason to retain Counsel prior to those events taking place, which would have put their creation at very late 2001 or early 2002.When people tell you these stories, you can point out how that would require the "RJDC" to some how know the future four years in advance and have the money to retain "lawyers." Nobody is that smart.

 

Hey, I didn't bring it up

We have just broken new ground with where I said it was heading: flow throughs. Industry leading. I will be very interested to see where AA ends up with this. That gets regional guys, the majority of them that want it anyway, where they want to be in the fairest manner to the mainline guys who have already been there and done that. Flow through was suggested during the prep for C2K but was snubbed by both MECs. After all, they wanted to follow their checklist---as they flew their airplane into the ground.

Compel the company to take their product back, and bring other companies on board with taking THEIR product back, do not let go of any more flying, and negotiate for the cancellation of feeder contracts as they come up for renewal. Elect leadership which will carry through on their promises.

 

Well DUHHH...That was the point of the timing...You need leverage if you want to put the "scope genie" back in the bottle....Go back to that time, both DAL and CMR were at the end game and the economy and industry were still doing pretty good...The idea of trying to put the genie back in the bottle now is laughable...Timing is EVERYTHING...That was the time, this is not the time...

Don't think they might have had an agenda just like ALL of US do? Really?

OK, you are entitled to your opinion as are ALL of us, but you aren't entitled to your own facts...This urban legand has to stop...Bar and I have never been to a "cookout" and I never told anyone that they would be "junior" to me if they moved on to Delta. That simply isn't true and it wouldn't be fair. All I asked, and all that any reasonable person at ASA and CMR asked was that we keep our seniority on the "little airplanes"...Not too much to ask since you guys didn't really want to fly "little airplanes" anyway....

 

de le ted......

 

I know if I was a Rep, I would be championing a return of the flying and at a minimum a sunset off all of the DCI CPA's as they came up for renewal. Put the rat back in the sewer.

As for flows, they alone do nothing for leverage or unity. They still allow the flying to stay off the list. If you had an agreement to park jets at the DCI level as pilots flowed, that would be one thing, but absent any sort of deal like that, it is good for those pilots that want to come to Ma Delta, but not good for our leverage, or our product.

 

ok guys i have a couple questions. I have heard the supposed rumors about bringing 70 seat plus planes along with pilots onto the DAL list
My questions would be this:
Would this be for ALPA only carriers?
Would this be for only the pilots who are currently flying these planes (what if someone bids a 200 for qol purposes)

I always thought a good idea would be to take all DCI alpa carriers and merge them DOH and then take that list and staple it to the bottom. Those regional captains would not lose their seats unless they chose to bid FO on a mainline aircraft for a 10 year period.

The problem lies in companies like ASA and PInnacle that fly for more than just Delta, how do you combine them? A seniority bid?

What are your guys thoughts at mainline on this matter?

 

The two most restrictive scope languages were American and USAirways...Also the two that furloughed the most pilots for the longest time...Which major furloughed the least for the least amount of time? DELTA!

 

Bar, I was very much a supporter of "unity and scope restoration"....However I realized that you and I are in the minority...You decided to bail to Delta, and I decided to circle my wagons here at ASA...We are BOTH victims of several decades of failed ALPA policy. I respect you and your opinion, and I understand why you don't respect my position...There was only so long that I was going to attack those windmills....I am now focused on growing my company as you should be focused on growing your company....That puts on opposite sides of the fence...This is the huge failure of this "ALPA apartheid"...Much like the civil war, both sides have a good point...

 

All questions that need to be grappled with.

It would be just speculation, and frankly probably not wise to comment.

Who knows what would show up in a SLI hearing.