Originally Posted by brakechatter

Why would there be documentation? COMAIR and ASA were just following the process, right? There had to be a PID prior to documentation, right?
These "inexperienced" MECs, with the lawyers and the RJDC watching closely, needed the commitment of a PID prior to documenting their fair version of the list. After all, they were just following the checklist. Once the commitment of a PID came down, and it was correctly decided that napkins bearing the Delta logo do NOT constitute operational integration, I
suspect it would have been quite obvious just what the "MECs" had in mind with regards to fair integration. As we have seen, nobody has any
idea just what an arbitrator will do-something some people, NOT to
include CG and MP, have told me that this is exactly what the "MECs", the RJDC, and the RJDC lawyers were counting on.

Interesting how you would even want to associate with Delta pilots, let alone have the desire to become one of us.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Water meet bridge. (Bar too!)

Lessons learned, and if given the opportunity to restore flying lets not try to go down the same doomed road.

Originally Posted by brakechatter

Not even close, brother. There is a correct version, and an incorrect version. It's more like apples meet oranges.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Reality is that we need to find a way to increase the fulcrum we use as leverage. Step one is to fly more of your flying. That creates instant leverage.

As for the past, I prefer to leave the past in the past and work for future results. I want to take this profession forward. There are lessons to be learned, no matter whose version of history we choose to look at. At the end of the day we still did not integrate any part of the DCI operation. Look at the failures, and when the next opportunity arises, look at how we can go in to the opportunity devoid of ego. Ego kills more opportunities than anything.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant

Bar, I was very much a supporter of "unity and scope restoration"....However I realized that you and I are in the minority...You decided to bail to Delta, and I decided to circle my wagons here at ASA...We are BOTH victims of several decades of failed ALPA policy...I am now focused on growing my company as you should be focused on growing your company....That puts on opposite sides of the fence...This is the huge failure of this "ALPA apartheid"...Much like the civil war, both sides have a good point...

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Carl,

According to DPA's lawyer, negotiating seniority is like negotiating a crew meal, no difference. If you don't believe me, go search youtube for a video series titled something like "Can't take the heat, USAPA in the desert." The whole thing is like two hours on 8 or 9 different videos so I am not going to spend the time to find the right link.

So DPA's lawyer has said that it is quite easy to renegotiate a seniority list. It might be difficult for him to announce that for another group that it's impossible to renegotiate a seniority list, that presents a severe conflict of interest there.

You are flat out wrong about the state of US Air's seniority list. There was a transition agreement that stated the process that the two groups would use to create an integrated list. That process was completed and the list was accepted by the company. There is a single seniority list at US Air, it just hasn't been used for anything because they are still in separate ops. Changing that list is no different that changing our list, and DPA's attorney says that seniority is just like a crew meal, so it's easy to change.

I don't know what lounge you hang out in in Detroit, but the one I hang out in has many people talking about how DPA is going to change the seniority list. DPA's attorney says that date of hire is the gold standard in integrating seniority lists, so that might be their target.

The problem with DPA now is that it is all things to all people. Some vote for DPA because they want a new seniority list. I have heard green book guys say that DPA is their ticket to seek revenge on the red book guys. Junior guys think DPA will eliminate RJ's and create hundreds of new mainline jet orders overnight. Middle seniority guys think that DPA will magically deliver a 50% pay raise. Some Delta dead zoners think DPA will deliver a new pension wrapped in a pretty bow. I don't know if the delay in delivering their constitution falls at least in part to somehow reconciling these diverse views of DPA.

One thing is certain, DPA is a chameleon now. Whenever their stated goals or milestones get in the way of reality, they merely change their website and voila, they are still all things to all people. If only it were that easy in the real world.

Originally Posted by brakechatter

Hey, I didn't bring it up

We have just broken new ground with where I said it was heading: flow throughs. Industry leading. I will be very interested to see where AA ends up with this. That gets regional guys, the majority of them that want it anyway, where they want to be in the fairest manner to the mainline guys who have already been there and done that. Flow through was suggested during the prep for C2K but was snubbed by both MECs. After all, they wanted to follow their checklist---as they flew their airplane into the ground.

Originally Posted by FlyingViking

Funny, not a word about DPA anywhere. Stop the nonsense comparison, you look silly.