Originally Posted by Flamer

That is an interesting number I had not seen before. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Columbia

I hadn't either-Someone mentioned here that swa pilots get paid more, in part, because they generate much more revenue per pilot. I don't remember seeing that comparison/barchart anywhere.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

I guess you just miss the point. A weak ineffective independent union signed the bad deal. The reason to join ALPA is to increase your unified strength to negotiate a better deal.

I am sorry, but this Airtran deal only demonstrates to a carrier like Jet Blue exactly why they should join ALPA. Right now, Jet Blue is in worse shape than Airtran. They have virtually no protections. Sure there are the Bond/McKasckill laws, but they only apply when the companies actually merge. Doesn't say anything about buying the company and letting it die on the vine while you take all their assets.

This is almost unbelievable that an independent union blows it for their pilots and some conclude that an independent union is the answer. Hey, I got a plan, the New England Patriots should copy the management structure of the Cincinnati Bengals, that has been working out so well lately let's emulate that team that loses.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

Juries also "proved" that OJ and Casey Anthony were innocent.

ALPA didn't throw the TWA pilots under the bus; they did it all by themselves, rather than face almost certainty of being thrown over the cliff of liquidation. If anything, their predicament proves the core problem of airline based seniority systems, rather than some type of portable seniority, but I won't even open up that can of worms again.

Originally Posted by Sniper

Here's the short and sweet:

ALPA convinced/coerced the TWA MEC to give up Allegheny Mohawk rights.
In exchange, American agreed to use its "reasonable best efforts" to integrate the TWA pilots.
American and APA agreed on the integration of the TWA pilots before the TWA MEC met with the APA to discuss the integration.
ALPA knew the agreement had already been made, but concealed this information from the TWA MEC.
American paid for a 'facilitator' in these discussions b/t the TWA MEC and the APA. Paying for the facilitator was the only thing American did to use its "reasonable best efforts" to integrate the TWA pilots.
The integration was revealed.
The TWA MEC tried to file an injunction to block the integration with their ALPA attorney.
ALPA barred the attorney from filing.
TWA MEC tried to arbitrate the dispute. ALPA controlled the arbitration process to ensure a decision against the TWA pilots.
APA was in debt b/c APA pilots staged an illegal sick-out to protest Reno Air pilot's seniority in the American/Reno Air merger, and were heavily fined.
If APA's pilots voted in ALPA, the debt from the sick-out judgement could be shed in the move to ALPA, but not if APA and ALPA merged.
ALPA regularly and consistently courted the APA during the TWA/American merger.
ALPA kept all their efforts to court APA from the TWA MEC.


In short, ALPA sacrificed the TWA pilot's seniority integration in order to court the APA, violating their duty of fair representation to the TWA-MEC and TWA pilots.

All of this is direct from the complaint by the TWA pilots.

ALPA disagrees with some issues:
- ALPA didn't convince/coerce the TWA MEC to give up their Allegheny Mohawk rights, the TWA MEC had the ultimate decision to give those rights up for American's "reasonable best efforts" to integrate.
- ALPA didn't conspire behind the TWA MEC's back to get the APA pilots to vote for ALPA.
- The TWA pilots need to blame the TWA MEC for their lot, not ALPA, who merely advised. The TWA MEC was in the driver's seat, not ALPA.

As we know, a jury decided in favor of the TWA pilots. ALPA's appealing.

Originally Posted by Flamer

That is an interesting number I had not seen before. Thanks.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

So I think I had the highest VR I've had to date on the 88/90... 157.

We're doing flaps 5 takeoffs so just ignore us as we zoom by and rotate on the numbers on the far end of a 12,000 runway. Yehaw.

Originally Posted by Elvis90

Had similar numbers leaving Guadalajara 2 days ago...13,000 ft runway, 5,000 ft pressure altitude, full load on an A320...whoopee.

Oh, and big mountains too... Looking forward to my -88 training in November too!