Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-10-2011 | 07:45 PM
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From: Light Chop
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Delta Airlines.htm
08-10-2011 | 08:00 PM
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From: Light Chop
Isn't it funny that if you care about our pilots and our airline then you should be demanding first, SWA pay parity plus a little extra just cuz, and second, SWA scope. But honestly I'd rather have complete pay parity on the 88/9 than be up above them because I want our pay insulated from givebacks by the fact SWA can afford to pay their pilots the same amount for equal work.
You know, once you get past the Clark Howards and the SWA pilot wannabe's, drunk on the koolaid that SWA pilots pass on, the merger of SWA and FL is a blessing!
I'm sure the first SWA crews flying the papa smurf painted 737 into ATL will be just waiting to hear snide quips from Delta pilots but I really hope they instead find that we welcome them with open arms.
So much so they ask to park on concourse A or B- because they ain't gettin that reception from FL pilots.
You know, once you get past the Clark Howards and the SWA pilot wannabe's, drunk on the koolaid that SWA pilots pass on, the merger of SWA and FL is a blessing!
I'm sure the first SWA crews flying the papa smurf painted 737 into ATL will be just waiting to hear snide quips from Delta pilots but I really hope they instead find that we welcome them with open arms.
So much so they ask to park on concourse A or B- because they ain't gettin that reception from FL pilots.
08-10-2011 | 08:12 PM
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From: Light Chop
It's a funny quirk of a pilot, they always ask why. Such as why are we paying for something that you don't know if I used or not and therefore can't measure whether it was successful or not?
I'm way over Attila, but it fit the SP reference theme.
08-10-2011 | 08:14 PM
Da Hudge
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From: Poodle Whisperer
In order to hang with us on well... now mainline parks on every concourse in ATL, the WN guys have to show their paychecks to all the agents and our managers.
08-10-2011 | 08:17 PM
Da Hudge
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Take that for what it's worth, but at least the ATILA crap hasn't been shoved in our faces so much lately.
What's really going to be funny is when those beachballs flying 250/.73 start flying into ATL and really throw the optimum ATILA world for a spin.
08-10-2011 | 08:20 PM
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From: Light Chop
I heard from a certain LCA that the company wasn't going to renew the ATILA contract, but someone ended up out of turn and renewed it. Now it's here to save face...
Take that for what it's worth, but at least the ATILA crap hasn't been shoved in our faces so much lately.
What's really going to be funny is when those beachballs flying 250/.73 start flying into ATL and really throw the optimum ATILA world for a spin.
Take that for what it's worth, but at least the ATILA crap hasn't been shoved in our faces so much lately.
What's really going to be funny is when those beachballs flying 250/.73 start flying into ATL and really throw the optimum ATILA world for a spin.
A simple fix would be to send a RTA and then monitor what time the pilots crossed the point and if the time was missed send a message to the pilots asking why, 1) ATC, 2) Weather Deviation, 3) I didn't want too, 4)...
08-10-2011 | 08:26 PM
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From: Kickin’ Back
Do you guys really think we will see the openers from either DALPA or the Company? I don't think so. I imagine we will hear about parts of them but I'll be REALLY surprised if we see the whole openers from either side. I guess my cynical side is showing thru.
Denny
Denny
08-10-2011 | 08:36 PM
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From: Light Chop
To which we can ask, you know we have female pilots now too. Use a more appropriate title like "Hey those who pay the bills..."
08-10-2011 | 08:43 PM
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I've never been through section 6. Do we get to see the openers? I've seen United/Continental's initial offer. It's insulting. I just assumed seeing the openers was a given. Maybe we won't.
08-10-2011 | 08:57 PM
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From: DAL 330
I bet they will open with a paycut disguised as a raise. Something like "increases of up to 40%" which of course will only be 5ish% per year partial cost of living adjustments, a few minor improvements here and there, and a few net concessionary things here and there. They will then count on the media, watercooler talk among other employee groups and even pilot apologists to parrot the "40% raise" lie. This is basic freshman airline management 101 straight from their oldest playbook. As a bonus, doesn't RA does work with one of the federal reserve branches/board of governers? Either way, he knows very well how inflationatory policy is used as a hidden tax to siphon wealth away from those who earn it, retroactively and across the board.
This goes so far beyond "restoration" as a general concept or "back in my day you could buy a Cadillac with a month's pay" or whatever. Forget high water marks of a different era and let's take all the emotion like that out of it and focus on what we know to be reasonably true, right here, right now.
Is it absolutely essential that we:
1. take note of the full and complete increase in cost of living, which is far in excess of the bogus "official" CPI numbers which exclude food and energy, which are, by far, the biggest inflationary cost pressures to most of us when it comes to how much to look for in a COLA, therefore we MUST:
2. back that number OUT of any claim of a "raise" over the life of the agreement AND:
3. Demand instant SWA per pilot small narrowbody W-2 parity, plus a premium for our massive additional revenue and higher per pilot revenue, plus a premium for our massive scope relief for flat out whole product outsourcing, plus a premium for our massive code share partnership relief, plus a premium for widebody flying above all that in proportion.
4. Back out every penny at or below SWA per pilot W-2 from being in the same room as the word "raise" or "increase" especially "over the life of" nonsense. If it takes 35% to get SWA parity and on day one we get 40%, we got a 5% raise. If we get 5% per year for 5 years, that is, at best, a zero percent raise, as the trillions we are printing out of thin air, including compounded interest costs which are also being printed out of thin air, will at least equal that (and likely more). But we have to start with a number at some point, so a negative 5% erosion, compounder per year, at a minimum, should statistically be backed out of any and all "raise" claims in additon to backing out 100% of every penny it takes to just equal SWA.
5. Only discuss money in excess of SWA AND in excess of a coumpounded 5% per year as a "raise" both initially and over the live of C12K.
6. In the event that a company or union agreed upon offer, TA, proposal or even opener is less than above, it shall be referred to appropriately as a pay cut.
7. ALPA's esteemed EF&A needs to drastically recalculate its epic fail method of calculating/rationalizing positive "bargaining credits" for outsourcing to its proper metric, which is clearly a substantial negative wage and benefit pressure on a per pilot basis, which is the entire reason for outsourcing the core business of an airline to begin with when you give them relief in section one: to give management relief from sections 2 through infinity, which not only prevents jobs at YOUR airline/pilot group, but produces long lasting negative wage, benefit, retirement and work rule pressure at every level.
The hoodwinking is over for C12K. Partial COLA's are not raises. Partial restoration is not a raise. SWA parity is not a raise. SWA pay, SWA scope, premiums for widebody, premiums for our massive network/first class/travel infrastructure, SWA work rules at a minimum for narrowbody domestic (plus inprovement for reasons already mentioned) and once all of that is taken care of, then and only then can the "me too" nonsense even be allowed into the discussion. If the company says that is too expensive, the debate should automatically shift to the issue of management competency.
1. SWA pay
2. SWA scope
3. SWA profitability sure beats
1. outsource/shrink
2. ?
3. profits.
This goes so far beyond "restoration" as a general concept or "back in my day you could buy a Cadillac with a month's pay" or whatever. Forget high water marks of a different era and let's take all the emotion like that out of it and focus on what we know to be reasonably true, right here, right now.
Is it absolutely essential that we:
1. take note of the full and complete increase in cost of living, which is far in excess of the bogus "official" CPI numbers which exclude food and energy, which are, by far, the biggest inflationary cost pressures to most of us when it comes to how much to look for in a COLA, therefore we MUST:
2. back that number OUT of any claim of a "raise" over the life of the agreement AND:
3. Demand instant SWA per pilot small narrowbody W-2 parity, plus a premium for our massive additional revenue and higher per pilot revenue, plus a premium for our massive scope relief for flat out whole product outsourcing, plus a premium for our massive code share partnership relief, plus a premium for widebody flying above all that in proportion.
4. Back out every penny at or below SWA per pilot W-2 from being in the same room as the word "raise" or "increase" especially "over the life of" nonsense. If it takes 35% to get SWA parity and on day one we get 40%, we got a 5% raise. If we get 5% per year for 5 years, that is, at best, a zero percent raise, as the trillions we are printing out of thin air, including compounded interest costs which are also being printed out of thin air, will at least equal that (and likely more). But we have to start with a number at some point, so a negative 5% erosion, compounder per year, at a minimum, should statistically be backed out of any and all "raise" claims in additon to backing out 100% of every penny it takes to just equal SWA.
5. Only discuss money in excess of SWA AND in excess of a coumpounded 5% per year as a "raise" both initially and over the live of C12K.
6. In the event that a company or union agreed upon offer, TA, proposal or even opener is less than above, it shall be referred to appropriately as a pay cut.
7. ALPA's esteemed EF&A needs to drastically recalculate its epic fail method of calculating/rationalizing positive "bargaining credits" for outsourcing to its proper metric, which is clearly a substantial negative wage and benefit pressure on a per pilot basis, which is the entire reason for outsourcing the core business of an airline to begin with when you give them relief in section one: to give management relief from sections 2 through infinity, which not only prevents jobs at YOUR airline/pilot group, but produces long lasting negative wage, benefit, retirement and work rule pressure at every level.
The hoodwinking is over for C12K. Partial COLA's are not raises. Partial restoration is not a raise. SWA parity is not a raise. SWA pay, SWA scope, premiums for widebody, premiums for our massive network/first class/travel infrastructure, SWA work rules at a minimum for narrowbody domestic (plus inprovement for reasons already mentioned) and once all of that is taken care of, then and only then can the "me too" nonsense even be allowed into the discussion. If the company says that is too expensive, the debate should automatically shift to the issue of management competency.
1. SWA pay
2. SWA scope
3. SWA profitability sure beats
1. outsource/shrink
2. ?
3. profits.
I basically agree with everything you say but "demanding" is not really a strategy. I will play devils advocate here:
DALPA passionately argues 1-7 above.
The company says we can only give you 15% up front and 3% per year for 4 years.
DALPA says but we "demand" more. See 1-7 above.
The company repeats, we can only give you 15% up front and 3% per year for 4 years.
RLA kicks in and the years roll by.
I repeat - I don't disagree with your reasoning - but we need more of a strategy than "demanding." I understand that you probably would not want to publicly lay out a proposed strategy on a public forum (Sun Tzu would not approve) but we all need to start about thinking about it.
Scoop
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