DAL 88 Driver

It doesn't matter how many times you try to make that point, it's irrelevant. Almost everybody here at Delta worked in previous pilot jobs that paid less at some point. And 1989-1997 was a very different world from today in terms of airline pilot compensation. Delta got C2K with TWA pilots being paid less than industry standard at the time. Give it up, Slow. You just come off as looking desperate.

And, no, I don't remember the payscale at TWA in 1997.

Denny Crane

Maybe I'm wrong but I think you are thinking of the percentage of Captain pay jump one gets from completing year 2 and going to year 3. There is an 8 percent bump (49% to 57% of Capt. pay)

I'll definitely agree that all of us have been on a defacto B-Scale and that needs to be remedied at the earliest possible time. The last few years I've made less as a 76er capt than I did as an MD-11 FO 1999-2001. DOH!

Denny

slowplay

And you come off looking hypocritical.

But you do an entertaining cheer routine!

slowplay

I'm going to have to go back and look again. The B-scale elimination was one of the major selling points of Contract 1990.

Edit: B-scale was reduced to 3 years in C90. It was eliminated in C2K. My apologies for the error.

This does support Sailingfun's argument that there has been a lot of money thrown at what can only be considered junior and profession issues. Eliminating the B-scale didn't help senior guys one bit. Raising entry level pay and modifying probation didn't help senior guys. Targeted DC didn't help senior guys. Yet these same senior guys (many no longer here) get lambasted.

johnso29

Lol Ferd! You kill me!

johnso29

So many guys are against the B-Scale. But if we could get some 70/76 seaters on property at our negotiated rates is that acceptable? Does anyone feel there is even a shot at doing so? At getting 70/76 seaters in house?

siemprerojo

Turn around! turn toward the camera dammit!

sailingfun

You are correct. The history of the B scale at Delta is fairly simply. In the 86 contract the pay rates on years 2 through 5 were adjusted to 60 percent of what they had been prior. If a L1011 SO got 100 an hour prior the new rate was 60 an hour.
In the next contract the B scale was reduced to two years. Years 2 and 3 only and the pay increased to 80 percent of the old A scale in those two years. Effectively 75 percent of the B scale was eliminated. In the 96 contract all percentages were set back to the original A scale and the B scale was happily dead. That contract however introduced express.
Express however was not a pay cut for new hires. They got paid about the same on Express as if they had been a 727 SO.
The actual pay cut at Express was absorbed by the senior FO's about to upgrade to Captain. 350 Captains positions were removed from the mix delaying FO upgrades substantially.
Delta management refused to ever admit there was a B scale since only one pay scale was published in the contract. They did not have to publish a A scale rate because they had no pilots in years 2 to 5 when the 86 contract was signed. This was in fact a Bold Faced Lie because with the purchase of Western Airlines they now a bunch of pilots in years 2 to 5 hired before the start of the B scale. Management secretly paid them A scale wages to avoid lawsuits but never published the A scale rates to avoid upsetting all the pilots at Delta in those same year groups getting paid 40 percent less and yes for you ALPA bashers they went along with that.
When the 89 contract was finally signed almost 2 years late there was a very small amount of retro pay back to the amendable date. The B Scale elimination in years 4 and 5 and the pay increase in years 2 and 3 was not however retroactive and no retro paid to those pilots.

sailingfun

It went away in the 96 contract. The 91 contract reduced the B scale to years 2 and 3 only. In 96 we had no pilots in years 2 and 3 so it effected no one on the property at the time. Thus kind of a non event. It was however a pay increase once we started hiring again.

Ferd149

It's been a while and my memory ain't what it used to be, but as I recall we argued this very point in bankruptcy court trying to stop what turned into Compass.

We said we'll fly them, just make an offer on the rates. The boy MBA on the stand said that would exposed those rates to "mainline creep". Mainline creep is a term I've never seen before or since, but that was their argument.

But, I agree. Have Delta just make us an offer on the rates and see where it shakes out.

Ferd