Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-21-2011 | 06:25 AM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
It was the reason I opted to turn their offer down.
They state that you will be here at retirement, but when you really get in to their retirement numbers, your career advancement is by far superior at DAL or AMR, both of which are not hiring right now. It is simple math.
In response to your statement, I too agree that the purchase of AAI was proof positive that their business plan of serving secondary airports to pick off traffic at capped out. They now need to hit the real markets of NYC and ATL. They have become a major airline with the same issues everyone else has.
09-21-2011 | 06:28 AM
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: B757/767
09-21-2011 | 06:58 AM
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
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From: B757/767
OP error......
09-21-2011 | 07:19 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: 765A
In my personal experience, each time I've had a chance to address a rep regarding how bad the PWA is right now and that I had many provisions in my regional airline contract that were far superior to the DAL PWA, they agreed and they are not happy with the status quo either. When queried about the goals for the next PWA, it has been made abundantly clear that they will not determine the negotiating goals of the NC without the results from the contract survey. To do otherwise would be acting outside the will of the pilots.
STOP SPREADING RUMORS/LIES about what the MEC is aiming for!!!!
I don't know, you don't know, and they don't know what the opener will be yet!
If the MEC would say that the pilot group will be asking for substantial improvements in our upcoming negotiations, it would alleviate a lot of the mistrust that I have about our opener. All I ever hear from our union is that we will wait for the results of the survey. A poorly worded survey can produce tainted data. I can see it now, the union saying this is what the pilot group wanted. Come out now and say we need improvements. Give the pilot group some indication that we will be seeking more than a "cost neutral contract". Not saying to state what our opener will be, just some hint that we will ask for better than what we are living with.
Last edited by johnso29; 09-21-2011 at 07:52 AM.
09-21-2011 | 07:21 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Oh, I didn't know you were referring to yourself in the OP. but since you asked.....
The first two sentences and the last paragraph of your OP sure does reek of not having any verifiable truth behind it, and I have never seen any facts/evidence to back up that members of the current MEC have that attitude.
Sooooo....If you wrote isn't factual then I use that quote as a fact, am I being factual or not?
In my personal experience, each time I've had a chance to address a rep regarding how bad the PWA is right now and that I had many provisions in my regional airline contract that were far superior to the DAL PWA, they agreed and they are not happy with the status quo either. When queried about the goals for the next PWA, it has been made abundantly clear that they will not determine the negotiating goals of the NC without the results from the contract survey. To do otherwise would be acting outside the will of the pilots.
STOP SPREADING RUMORS/LIES about what the MEC is aiming for!!!!
I don't know, you don't know, and they don't know what the opener will be yet!
Until the survey results are complied we do not know how much the pilots want in vague or specific terms, and to spread rumors and commentary otherwise is disingenuous at best, an attempt to manage expectations, and at worst an effort to undermine the efforts of the MEC to put more money in our wallets and improve the lives of Delta Pilots.
The first two sentences and the last paragraph of your OP sure does reek of not having any verifiable truth behind it, and I have never seen any facts/evidence to back up that members of the current MEC have that attitude.
Sooooo....If you wrote isn't factual then I use that quote as a fact, am I being factual or not?
In my personal experience, each time I've had a chance to address a rep regarding how bad the PWA is right now and that I had many provisions in my regional airline contract that were far superior to the DAL PWA, they agreed and they are not happy with the status quo either. When queried about the goals for the next PWA, it has been made abundantly clear that they will not determine the negotiating goals of the NC without the results from the contract survey. To do otherwise would be acting outside the will of the pilots.
STOP SPREADING RUMORS/LIES about what the MEC is aiming for!!!!
I don't know, you don't know, and they don't know what the opener will be yet!
Until the survey results are complied we do not know how much the pilots want in vague or specific terms, and to spread rumors and commentary otherwise is disingenuous at best, an attempt to manage expectations, and at worst an effort to undermine the efforts of the MEC to put more money in our wallets and improve the lives of Delta Pilots.
It doesn't have to be super specific. The contract survey can fill in the blanks there. Just let us know that you're trying to get our profession and our careers back on track and that you understand that we have NOT accepted our current situation as some new "baseline" from which we should expect traditional improvements.It is my opinion that restoration is not the objective of this MEC. Can you provide any quotes/facts that would indicate otherwise? And BTW, your reps by themselves do not count. Unless you have those reps telling you that this is the objective of the majority of the MEC. I'll be surprised if you have any quotes indicating this... but it would be a pleasant surprise nonetheless! Let's see them if you've got them!
09-21-2011 | 07:27 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
If the MEC would say that the pilot group will be asking for substantial improvements in our upcoming negotiations, it would alleviate a lot of the mistrust that I have about our opener. All I ever hear from our union is that we will wait for the results of the survey. A poorly worded survey can produce tainted data. I can see it now, the union saying this is what the pilot group wanted. Come out now and say we need improvements. Give the pilot group some indication that we will be seeking more than a "cost neutral contract". Not saying to state what our opener will be, just some hint that we will ask for better than what we are living with.
They've done that. Just look at the mission statement. It clearly states improvement. The problem comes in that we should not be seeking to improve in a traditional manner. We are digging out of a 40%+ hole! It's going to take massive improvements to fix that (about +70% for C2K+COLA). "Improvement" could mean +5%. You gonna be happy with that?
09-21-2011 | 07:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
Likes: 0
From: right for a long, long time
Shiz, it's pretty simple. If this MEC had restoration as their objective, they would talk about it! It doesn't have to be super specific. The contract survey can fill in the blanks there. Just let us know that you're trying to get our profession and our careers back on track and that you understand that we have NOT accepted our current situation as some new "baseline" from which we should expect traditional improvements.
It is my opinion that restoration is not the objective of this MEC. Can you provide any quotes/facts that would indicate otherwise? And BTW, your reps by themselves do not count. Unless you have those reps telling you that this is the objective of the majority of the MEC. I'll be surprised if you have any quotes indicating this... but it would be a pleasant surprise nonetheless! Let's see them if you've got them!
It doesn't have to be super specific. The contract survey can fill in the blanks there. Just let us know that you're trying to get our profession and our careers back on track and that you understand that we have NOT accepted our current situation as some new "baseline" from which we should expect traditional improvements.It is my opinion that restoration is not the objective of this MEC. Can you provide any quotes/facts that would indicate otherwise? And BTW, your reps by themselves do not count. Unless you have those reps telling you that this is the objective of the majority of the MEC. I'll be surprised if you have any quotes indicating this... but it would be a pleasant surprise nonetheless! Let's see them if you've got them!
I would LOVE to be able to suspend the principles of logic and prove a negative, but that is not possible in the world we live in, sorry.
(Underline mine)
Let me repeat, we do not objectively KNOW what the pilots want/expect as a whole until the surveys have been answered and compiled!
Anecdotal case in point, I was talking with a pilot yesterday(Sept. 20) who said that we can't expect raises in this economy. I was stunned. I didn't think those pilots actually existed, but no kidding he told me that he has lots of neighbors out of work and people all over taking pay cuts, so for us to ask for anything substantial was pointless.
You and I both want the pilots of Delta Air Lines to achieve a contract that we can put on the mantle of restoration, but you CANNOT hope accomplish that by rumor-mongering about how the MEC is not going to try and do the will of the pilots (and I am reasonably confident that an overwhelming majority of pilots want to be restored, and the guy above was an outlier [I hope!]).
Everytime you(or anyone for that matter) posts inaccurate information on what the MEC is trying to do for the pilots, you are attempting to MANAGE EXPECTATIONS. Cut it out! I don't want other posters and the many more lurkers out there to lower their personal bar for the next contract because of your attempts to paint a bleak picture of the leadership!
09-21-2011 | 08:03 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
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From: 737 ATL
We already have Ben & Jerry's on the airplanes.
Cherry Garcia and some others I believe.
Now there's a new one.
Believe it or not, this is real.
Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream - Schweddy Balls
.
Cherry Garcia and some others I believe.
Now there's a new one.
Believe it or not, this is real.
Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream - Schweddy Balls
.
09-21-2011 | 08:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
From: SLC ERB
It is my opinion that restoration is not the objective of this MEC. Can you provide any quotes/facts that would indicate otherwise? And BTW, your reps by themselves do not count. Unless you have those reps telling you that this is the objective of the majority of the MEC. I'll be surprised if you have any quotes indicating this... but it would be a pleasant surprise nonetheless! Let's see them if you've got them!
09-21-2011 | 08:36 AM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,007
Likes: 0
From: Space Shuttle PIC
(Bold mine)
I would LOVE to be able to suspend the principles of logic and prove a negative, but that is not possible in the world we live in, sorry.
(Underline mine)
Let me repeat, we do not objectively KNOW what the pilots want/expect as a whole until the surveys have been answered and compiled!
Anecdotal case in point, I was talking with a pilot yesterday(Sept. 20) who said that we can't expect raises in this economy. I was stunned. I didn't think those pilots actually existed, but no kidding he told me that he has lots of neighbors out of work and people all over taking pay cuts, so for us to ask for anything substantial was pointless.
You and I both want the pilots of Delta Air Lines to achieve a contract that we can put on the mantle of restoration, but you CANNOT hope accomplish that by rumor-mongering about how the MEC is not going to try and do the will of the pilots (and I am reasonably confident that an overwhelming majority of pilots want to be restored, and the guy above was an outlier [I hope!]).
Everytime you(or anyone for that matter) posts inaccurate information on what the MEC is trying to do for the pilots, you are attempting to MANAGE EXPECTATIONS. Cut it out! I don't want other posters and the many more lurkers out there to lower their personal bar for the next contract because of your attempts to paint a bleak picture of the leadership!
I would LOVE to be able to suspend the principles of logic and prove a negative, but that is not possible in the world we live in, sorry.
(Underline mine)
Let me repeat, we do not objectively KNOW what the pilots want/expect as a whole until the surveys have been answered and compiled!
Anecdotal case in point, I was talking with a pilot yesterday(Sept. 20) who said that we can't expect raises in this economy. I was stunned. I didn't think those pilots actually existed, but no kidding he told me that he has lots of neighbors out of work and people all over taking pay cuts, so for us to ask for anything substantial was pointless.
You and I both want the pilots of Delta Air Lines to achieve a contract that we can put on the mantle of restoration, but you CANNOT hope accomplish that by rumor-mongering about how the MEC is not going to try and do the will of the pilots (and I am reasonably confident that an overwhelming majority of pilots want to be restored, and the guy above was an outlier [I hope!]).
Everytime you(or anyone for that matter) posts inaccurate information on what the MEC is trying to do for the pilots, you are attempting to MANAGE EXPECTATIONS. Cut it out! I don't want other posters and the many more lurkers out there to lower their personal bar for the next contract because of your attempts to paint a bleak picture of the leadership!
I saw the head shaking myself. I was THERE, at a lounge Q&A. We made over $900 million in bag fees alone last year, but certain reps still think we shouldn't get Southwest plus per hour (or trip) for our 737s. Lunacy. SHOW ME THE MONEY, OR SOMEONE ELSE WILL. I understand management wants to pay down the debt by 2013 to $10B, but there is another debt they should consider repaying too. The Dalpa OPENER will be huge, and they had better get it right.
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