Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-27-2011 | 05:09 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Opinion - The LEC office is where the "rubber meets the road" on matters of pilot representation. Pilots are served most by their elected Reps and if there is a critical need there are several people called in to work for that pilot. One of those people is always an LEC Rep.
The LEC Office is the meeting point for these activities. Where are we supposed to brief for an upcoming meeting ... Starbuck's? Yeah, that's really where I want to discuss something that might be embarrassing, or effect another pilot's privacy.
As we prepare for a contract and as we engage in a representational battle, it would seem we need the resources we've got.
The LEC Office is the meeting point for these activities. Where are we supposed to brief for an upcoming meeting ... Starbuck's? Yeah, that's really where I want to discuss something that might be embarrassing, or effect another pilot's privacy.
As we prepare for a contract and as we engage in a representational battle, it would seem we need the resources we've got.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-27-2011 at 05:23 AM.
09-27-2011 | 05:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
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Sorry for a little off topic; probably covered somewhere in the previous 7000 pages...
So I was looking through the contract and I can't seem to find when we snapback to our old rates?
Oh wait...certainly we would have included that in our major concessionary giveback to the company...right? Or better yet a merger contract when the company really needs our support?
I can just hear the DALPA doorbell chime...."what would you be willing to give up for that?"
So I was looking through the contract and I can't seem to find when we snapback to our old rates?
Oh wait...certainly we would have included that in our major concessionary giveback to the company...right? Or better yet a merger contract when the company really needs our support?
I can just hear the DALPA doorbell chime...."what would you be willing to give up for that?"
09-27-2011 | 05:55 AM
Sho me da money!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 947
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From: B25, Left
Yep "never show up to a gun fight with a butter knife!". Fact of the matter is going into negotiations for anything, be prepared. No point in bemoaning the opposition for bringing a better set of tools. In the end nobody was happy but I have to say I am glad my ALPA dues went to towards protecting my interests, in fact I gained .03% seniority. Now on to C2012.
Last edited by FIIGMO; 09-27-2011 at 05:59 AM. Reason: I attended to a state college
09-27-2011 | 06:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
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From: right for a long, long time
Opinion - The LEC office is where the "rubber meets the road" on matters of pilot representation. Pilots are served most by their elected Reps and if there is a critical need there are several people called in to work for that pilot. One of those people is always an LEC Rep.
The LEC Office is the meeting point for these activities. Where are we supposed to brief for an upcoming meeting ... Starbuck's? Yeah, that's really where I want to discuss something that might be embarrassing, or effect another pilot's privacy.
As we prepare for a contract and as we engage in a representational battle, it would seem we need the resources we've got.
The LEC Office is the meeting point for these activities. Where are we supposed to brief for an upcoming meeting ... Starbuck's? Yeah, that's really where I want to discuss something that might be embarrassing, or effect another pilot's privacy.
As we prepare for a contract and as we engage in a representational battle, it would seem we need the resources we've got.
DALPA has a SMRA of $8.5 Million(and growing daily)...... while UALPA/CALPA are at $0 in the "savings account" and asking for MCF funds......
09-27-2011 | 06:11 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
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From: 737 ATL
Did they really propose getting ALPA costs under control by whacking LEC expenses and not even mention that hydra-headed dues-eating monster in Herndon?
09-27-2011 | 06:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
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From: right for a long, long time
Well after they cut around 100 positions at National over the last 6 years and reducing the officer pay, I think they've done a good bit already.... But hey, we should always be looking for ways to keep things trim!
09-27-2011 | 06:23 AM
Get's Every Day Off
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Retired
I'm not arguing that some guys haven't moved much. That was never my point. I do have more people under me know then when the arbitrated list was released though. Over twice as many people to be exact.
My point was that people in your position haven't seen much movement for a number of reasons. The two biggest IMO being bankruptcy and 9/11. To further emphasize my point, I stated that people shouldn't expect a ton of movement until the Age 65 retirements start anyway. daldad is complaining because we are supposedly shrinking, & my point was what else did you expect? Two Legacy carriers merged in order to save costs and increase profitability. To think that we would merge and then magically grow organically is foolish IMO. It defeats the purpose of the merger.
Add to that the last 10 years have been worse for growth rather then better. 9/11, SARS, the housing crash, the bank crash, the market crash, one of the worst recessions we've ever seen. UAL parked 100 airplanes and furloughed 1500 pilots. Continental furloughed, UsAir furloughed, ATA, Pace, Skybus, Aloha, to name of few went out of business. I know the lack of projected growth and upward movement is tough to swallow, but it's been A LOT worse for a lot of other people.
There are many other factors that have contributed to the lack of progression, not just mergers, codeshares, & JV's. JMHO
My point was that people in your position haven't seen much movement for a number of reasons. The two biggest IMO being bankruptcy and 9/11. To further emphasize my point, I stated that people shouldn't expect a ton of movement until the Age 65 retirements start anyway. daldad is complaining because we are supposedly shrinking, & my point was what else did you expect? Two Legacy carriers merged in order to save costs and increase profitability. To think that we would merge and then magically grow organically is foolish IMO. It defeats the purpose of the merger.
Add to that the last 10 years have been worse for growth rather then better. 9/11, SARS, the housing crash, the bank crash, the market crash, one of the worst recessions we've ever seen. UAL parked 100 airplanes and furloughed 1500 pilots. Continental furloughed, UsAir furloughed, ATA, Pace, Skybus, Aloha, to name of few went out of business. I know the lack of projected growth and upward movement is tough to swallow, but it's been A LOT worse for a lot of other people.
There are many other factors that have contributed to the lack of progression, not just mergers, codeshares, & JV's. JMHO
09-27-2011 | 06:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 782
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From: 717
Sorry, I just think that is a lame excuse to despise those that work for the union on our behalf. Before you get upset, I do think that someone from the union should be contactable on a 24/7 basis, with an actual monitored response time, but I don't think that the entire union leaders and staff need to be sitting in the office on Christmas.
09-27-2011 | 06:45 AM
Underboob King
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,412
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From: Guppy Commander
It couldn't have been ignorance. The "separate certificate trick" has been a pilot issue for a long time and even a DCI issue going back to at least 2004 with Independance Air. Mesa and Republic pilots got contractual protections against the separate certificate trick for their own holding companies a while ago. Yet our lawyers "missed" that? They missed the same trick with RAH that the RAH pilot group already had in their own contracts? Really? How is it reasonable to believe that "mistake" wasn't intentional?
Not a chance. That was no oversight, it was intentional. When finally cornered into admitting the extremely obvious (which some will try to deny) they will eventually morph into chaff popping arguements like "yeah, well, sure, but see we had to do it because of the DCI wholly owned airlines..." despite the fact that it is a separate issue entirely.
If XYZ airlines flies non permitted aircraft anywhere in their corporate structure or holding company they either need our permission on a case by case basis to do so, or else they must park them immediately unless those planes are flown by DL seniority list pilots IAW the DL pilot PWA. That doesn't mean we have to merge with the wholly owned airline(s) any more than we would have to merge with RAH. That is not a merger issue, it is a "you violated our language that was so elementary that several regionals already have said language...OR you are parked and can't fly for us anymore". Its not very complicated.
We aren't done with this issue either. When Jerry "the ego" Atkins tries his desperate manifest destiny pipe dream of running a real airline and whizzes through his billion dollars of fee for departure guaranteed profit easy money, we had better have langauge to pull the plug and let him drown rather than subsidizing him and his "ace dealers" who will limbo pretty low to help their little "start up" make it.
Not a chance. That was no oversight, it was intentional. When finally cornered into admitting the extremely obvious (which some will try to deny) they will eventually morph into chaff popping arguements like "yeah, well, sure, but see we had to do it because of the DCI wholly owned airlines..." despite the fact that it is a separate issue entirely.
If XYZ airlines flies non permitted aircraft anywhere in their corporate structure or holding company they either need our permission on a case by case basis to do so, or else they must park them immediately unless those planes are flown by DL seniority list pilots IAW the DL pilot PWA. That doesn't mean we have to merge with the wholly owned airline(s) any more than we would have to merge with RAH. That is not a merger issue, it is a "you violated our language that was so elementary that several regionals already have said language...OR you are parked and can't fly for us anymore". Its not very complicated.
We aren't done with this issue either. When Jerry "the ego" Atkins tries his desperate manifest destiny pipe dream of running a real airline and whizzes through his billion dollars of fee for departure guaranteed profit easy money, we had better have langauge to pull the plug and let him drown rather than subsidizing him and his "ace dealers" who will limbo pretty low to help their little "start up" make it.
09-27-2011 | 06:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,890
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From: 737A
It wasn't at the time. Flying Tigers (later FedEx, had a 21 year old 727 Captain) both he and his son are friends. Jets brought explosive growth to the carriers in the middle to late 1960's. The "competitive qualifications" back then would shock you. United was hiring with a PPL and training!
Another dear family friend, recently departed, made Captain at Delta in his second year of employment (Capt. Sonny McDowell)
Another dear family friend, recently departed, made Captain at Delta in his second year of employment (Capt. Sonny McDowell)
I obviously have too much time on my hands...
The show is set in 1963. Pan Am didn't start hiring until 1964. Prior to that, they hadn't hired since 1955 ("Skygods" by Robert Gantt, which is a great read, by the way). I kinda doubt they had any 32 year old captains.
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