Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-02-2011 | 06:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 931
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From: B-7ER JFK
Here's something to keep in mind when you fill out your contract survey:
Delta Pilots C2K Restoration Facts
(Contract 2013 Survey Reference Guide)
■2004 LOA #46 concessions saves Delta nearly $1B per year[1]
■2006 LOA #51 Pilot Pension termination savings potential excess of $1B[2]
■Concessions1: Since 2004 (just a few of the highlights)
■32.5% Pay Cut = 29.5% when adjusted for pay rate increases through 2012
(Requires a 41.5% increase to restore C2K w/o a COLA)
■(PMNW) 29% total Pay Cut = 5% when adjusted for 2012 B757 pay rates
(received a 33% increase to this rate)
■Per Diem Reduced (Int. $2.90 to $2.50, Dom. $2.40 to $2.00)
■Night Pay lost (CA - $15, FO - $10)
■International Pay reduced (CA - $8 to $6, FO - $6 to $4)
■Reduced Vacation Day Value (3.75 to 3.0)
■Lost 6th week of Vacation
■Sick Leave Bank system greatly reduced & diluted
■Accident Leave reduced (120 days to 90 days)
■Change to PBS scheduling system with loss of reserve High/Low Yellow Slip
■Monthly Cap system changed to ALV reducing the minimum monthly guarantees
■Delta 2008 Contract vs Industry Leaders[3]: (a few more highlights)
■15+ year CA B767, $189hr vs $262hr (a 39% increase, C2K = $268hr)
■12 year FO % of CA pay, 68.3% vs 71.6%
■Regular Line Guarantee, 65hrs vs 81hrs
■Reserve Line Guarantee, 70hrs vs 81hrs
■Vacation Pay Per Day, 3.00hrs vs 6.00hrs
■Training Pay, 3:15hrs vs 4:40hrs (3:30 if <6:00hrs, think CQ on CD or distance learning)
■Sick Leave, 240hrs (3yr spread) w/ no bank vs 90hrs year w/ 1080hr bank
■Medical PPO + Dental monthly premium, $399 vs $35
■Disability Pay, 50% vs 66.6%
■Delta carries 160 million passengers per year[4]
■Delta has successfully raised fares 10 times this year $6 - $10 round trip[5]
■Delta made $952M in “Baggage Fees” alone during 2010[6]
■A $1B contract restoration would cost $6.25 per passengers
(This happens to be the price of Delta’s “Fruit & Cheese Plate” or a Venti, Non-fat Latte)
Can Delta Air Lines afford to restore C2K ? or even C2K+ ?
Tell DALPA what YOU think, fill out the survey AND contact your LEC representatives.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] DALPA 2011 Contract History
[2] AirWise News, US Bankruptcy Court – Reuters, 9/5/06
[3] DALPA 2011 Contract Comparison
[4] Delta News Release 7/6/11, news.delta.com
[5] J.P.Morgan – Jamie Baker, USA Today 9/9/11
[6] AirlineReporter.com 7/1/11
Delta Pilots C2K Restoration Facts
(Contract 2013 Survey Reference Guide)
■2004 LOA #46 concessions saves Delta nearly $1B per year[1]
■2006 LOA #51 Pilot Pension termination savings potential excess of $1B[2]
■Concessions1: Since 2004 (just a few of the highlights)
■32.5% Pay Cut = 29.5% when adjusted for pay rate increases through 2012
(Requires a 41.5% increase to restore C2K w/o a COLA)
■(PMNW) 29% total Pay Cut = 5% when adjusted for 2012 B757 pay rates
(received a 33% increase to this rate)
■Per Diem Reduced (Int. $2.90 to $2.50, Dom. $2.40 to $2.00)
■Night Pay lost (CA - $15, FO - $10)
■International Pay reduced (CA - $8 to $6, FO - $6 to $4)
■Reduced Vacation Day Value (3.75 to 3.0)
■Lost 6th week of Vacation
■Sick Leave Bank system greatly reduced & diluted
■Accident Leave reduced (120 days to 90 days)
■Change to PBS scheduling system with loss of reserve High/Low Yellow Slip
■Monthly Cap system changed to ALV reducing the minimum monthly guarantees
■Delta 2008 Contract vs Industry Leaders[3]: (a few more highlights)
■15+ year CA B767, $189hr vs $262hr (a 39% increase, C2K = $268hr)
■12 year FO % of CA pay, 68.3% vs 71.6%
■Regular Line Guarantee, 65hrs vs 81hrs
■Reserve Line Guarantee, 70hrs vs 81hrs
■Vacation Pay Per Day, 3.00hrs vs 6.00hrs
■Training Pay, 3:15hrs vs 4:40hrs (3:30 if <6:00hrs, think CQ on CD or distance learning)
■Sick Leave, 240hrs (3yr spread) w/ no bank vs 90hrs year w/ 1080hr bank
■Medical PPO + Dental monthly premium, $399 vs $35
■Disability Pay, 50% vs 66.6%
■Delta carries 160 million passengers per year[4]
■Delta has successfully raised fares 10 times this year $6 - $10 round trip[5]
■Delta made $952M in “Baggage Fees” alone during 2010[6]
■A $1B contract restoration would cost $6.25 per passengers
(This happens to be the price of Delta’s “Fruit & Cheese Plate” or a Venti, Non-fat Latte)
Can Delta Air Lines afford to restore C2K ? or even C2K+ ?
Tell DALPA what YOU think, fill out the survey AND contact your LEC representatives.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] DALPA 2011 Contract History
[2] AirWise News, US Bankruptcy Court – Reuters, 9/5/06
[3] DALPA 2011 Contract Comparison
[4] Delta News Release 7/6/11, news.delta.com
[5] J.P.Morgan – Jamie Baker, USA Today 9/9/11
[6] AirlineReporter.com 7/1/11
10-02-2011 | 06:23 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Quote from above: "That is excellent, Timbo! Just a couple of things I would suggest correcting and adding.
1) Under "concessions since 2004", we took two pay cuts, not one. The first one (prior to BK) was 32.5%. The second one (during BK) was 14%. Cumulative effect of a 42% pay cut. So that should read 42%, not 32.5%.
2) To restore our C2K rates with COLA requires a 70% increase. Might want to add that for additional SA."
My reply:
Yeah, I know that, I was here, but we have been getting pay raises every year since 2004. The 32.5% number is to get from TODAY's pay rates, back to 2004 rates.
Also, I clipped that from the DALPA board, I'm not smart enough to do the math, but I thought it was a pretty good, short, synopsis of what it's going to take to get back to where we were. So, keep those numbers in mind when you fill out the survey.
Now, get back to watching Pan Am, so you can see what our Flight Attendants should look like too! I think some of the ones in the show (set in 1962?) are still flying for us...
And where's the Pink Underboob? I say we need at least one good shot every day for Breast Cancer Awareness Month!
Jeez, I think the Jets offensive line is on estrogen...they are playing like a bunch of little girls, might just as well watch Pan Am!
1) Under "concessions since 2004", we took two pay cuts, not one. The first one (prior to BK) was 32.5%. The second one (during BK) was 14%. Cumulative effect of a 42% pay cut. So that should read 42%, not 32.5%.
2) To restore our C2K rates with COLA requires a 70% increase. Might want to add that for additional SA."
My reply:
Yeah, I know that, I was here, but we have been getting pay raises every year since 2004. The 32.5% number is to get from TODAY's pay rates, back to 2004 rates.
Also, I clipped that from the DALPA board, I'm not smart enough to do the math, but I thought it was a pretty good, short, synopsis of what it's going to take to get back to where we were. So, keep those numbers in mind when you fill out the survey.
Now, get back to watching Pan Am, so you can see what our Flight Attendants should look like too! I think some of the ones in the show (set in 1962?) are still flying for us...
And where's the Pink Underboob? I say we need at least one good shot every day for Breast Cancer Awareness Month!
Jeez, I think the Jets offensive line is on estrogen...they are playing like a bunch of little girls, might just as well watch Pan Am!
Last edited by Timbo; 10-02-2011 at 06:30 PM. Reason: clarity...if there is such a thing on the intertubes.
10-02-2011 | 06:36 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
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From: 777B
10-02-2011 | 06:37 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Quote from above: "That is excellent, Timbo! Just a couple of things I would suggest correcting and adding.
1) Under "concessions since 2004", we took two pay cuts, not one. The first one (prior to BK) was 32.5%. The second one (during BK) was 14%. Cumulative effect of a 42% pay cut. So that should read 42%, not 32.5%.
2) To restore our C2K rates with COLA requires a 70% increase. Might want to add that for additional SA."
My reply:
Yeah, I know that, I was here, but we have been getting pay raises every year since 2004. The 32.5% number is to get from TODAY's pay rates, back to 2004 rates.
Also, I clipped that from the DALPA board, I'm not smart enough to do the math, but I thought it was a pretty good, short, synopsis of what it's going to take to get back to where we were. So, keep those numbers in mind when you fill out the survey.
Now, get back to watching Pan Am, so you can see what our Flight Attendants should look like too! I think some of the ones in the show (set in 1962?) are still flying for us...
And where's the Pink Underboob? I say we need at least one good shot every day for Breast Cancer Awareness Month!
1) Under "concessions since 2004", we took two pay cuts, not one. The first one (prior to BK) was 32.5%. The second one (during BK) was 14%. Cumulative effect of a 42% pay cut. So that should read 42%, not 32.5%.
2) To restore our C2K rates with COLA requires a 70% increase. Might want to add that for additional SA."
My reply:
Yeah, I know that, I was here, but we have been getting pay raises every year since 2004. The 32.5% number is to get from TODAY's pay rates, back to 2004 rates.
Also, I clipped that from the DALPA board, I'm not smart enough to do the math, but I thought it was a pretty good, short, synopsis of what it's going to take to get back to where we were. So, keep those numbers in mind when you fill out the survey.
Now, get back to watching Pan Am, so you can see what our Flight Attendants should look like too! I think some of the ones in the show (set in 1962?) are still flying for us...
And where's the Pink Underboob? I say we need at least one good shot every day for Breast Cancer Awareness Month!
That's not the easiest thing to explain.
Make sense?
10-02-2011 | 06:41 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
No...but I'll take your word for it. Like I said, I didn't come up with the numbers but I'm going to put 150% raise on my survey, just to offset all the asshats who will put something lame like 25%.
And on the Man Card? Well if the Jets would just play football instead of feild hockey, I wouldn't be watching Pan Am!
And on the Man Card? Well if the Jets would just play football instead of feild hockey, I wouldn't be watching Pan Am!
10-02-2011 | 06:54 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 0
From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Thanks for taking my word for it... but for anyone else having a hard time wrapping their brain around this, here's a little further clarification:
Let's use $100/hour as an example. If you take a 32.5% pay cut, you end up with a new rate of $67.50. If you take a further 14% pay cut on the $67.50, you end up with a new rate of $58.05. $58.05 is a cumulative total of a 42% (41.95% to be exact) pay cut off the $100 rate with which you started.
To restore a 42% pay cut would require a 73% increase. (Look at the $100 rate again. $100 - 42% = $58. $58 + 73% = $100.)
Now, we had some pay increases since we took the cumulative total pay cut of 42%. That's the reason it no longer takes a 73% increase to restore our 2004 C2K rates. With the rates we have now, it takes a 41.5% increase to restore us back to the actual 2004 C2K rates. If you factor in inflation to those 2004 C2K rates, it then takes a 70% increase to restore our current rates back to the buying power those 2004 C2K rates afforded.
Hope that helps.
10-02-2011 | 07:00 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
- [*]
Carl
10-02-2011 | 07:41 PM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
10-02-2011 | 07:46 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
No,no, Ferd needs to be around. He is a lot of fun to party with. I just not so sure if he will be that was after going to FiFi!
10-02-2011 | 07:50 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
I really hope you're right about that. But I gotta be honest, I will be truly SHOCKED if our opener is even a 30% increase in pay. With guys like RW in Strategic Planning, his sidekick RH, and a Moak disciple as MEC Chairman, I just don't see anything remotely close to that happening.
But I'll tell ya what... if our opener would result in a big enough increase that our average domestic narrowbody pilot would have a W2 of over $230K (with no scope givebacks), I'll buy you a steak dinner with all the trimmings and write "ACL is a genius" 100 times on the APC chalkboard! How's that?
But I'll tell ya what... if our opener would result in a big enough increase that our average domestic narrowbody pilot would have a W2 of over $230K (with no scope givebacks), I'll buy you a steak dinner with all the trimmings and write "ACL is a genius" 100 times on the APC chalkboard!
How's that?I can also tell you that, if the pilots want 10-15% total that is what they are going to go for. Strat Planning gives their opinion, and the MEC will decide where to go.
I would be floored if the opener is less than what you suggest. I would expect close what the SEA FO Rep states in his article North By Southwest as a end game, not a opener. Oh and btw, if it is no where near that, the decision for me will be easy, No! Scope give backs? Nope, Work Rule give backs? Nope.
Even if AMR is in CH11 I am not giving anything back.
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