Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
I'm not going anywhere until I see what our next contract looks like. It will take me 16.5 years to reach the 50 percent mark at Delta according to the crystal ball. That assumes everyone leaves at the mandatory retirement age of 65 and the list stays the same size. I have news for you. Very few pilots are leaving early. I've flown with 63 1/2 year olds on the MD-88. Our list is shrinking. The retirement age might rise to 70. If that kid's post on the other website is true, he is making $72,000/year more than me to fly a smaller airplane. I like my current employer, but that's a hell of a lot of money per year. I would like someone to publish W-2's. ALPA tells me I'm not far off from Southwest, but the Southwest pilots are telling me different. I would like to know who's telling the truth. It's pretty sad how you just want to get rid of me. You would think you would want this place to be a premier place to work and not just a stepping stone. I have a junior buddy of mine who bid to the 737 recently to just get the type rating so he can move on. I know a 7er pilot who went to UPS while furloughed. He was furloughed from UPS and is back here. I asked him if he is going to stay when UPS recalls him. His answer was "hell no." The reason is UPS just pays too much more. It all comes down to the money and time off. I don't get much of either as a commuter on reserve.
Oh, and I think that DAL IS the premier place to work. Life is not all about the money.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
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I couldn't care less if you leave or stay. It's up to you. If you want the money so bad.. and it really is that much better.... then go. Nobody here is gonna stop you. As a matter of fact, I am sure there are a few guys junior to you that would be happy to see you leave too, just as you would those senior to you. Get the type... go to SWA.. make lots of money.. be happy. I'm guessing you won't crack the top 50% there for at least as long as here too.. Same grass.. different septic tank.
Oh, and I think that DAL IS the premier place to work. Life is not all about the money.
Oh, and I think that DAL IS the premier place to work. Life is not all about the money.
I'm not going anywhere until I see what our next contract looks like. It will take me 16.5 years to reach the 50 percent mark at Delta according to the crystal ball. That assumes everyone leaves at the mandatory retirement age of 65 and the list stays the same size. I have news for you. Very few pilots are leaving early. I've flown with 63 1/2 year olds on the MD-88. Our list is shrinking. The retirement age might rise to 70. If that kid's post on the other website is true, he is making $72,000/year more than me to fly a smaller airplane. I like my current employer, but that's a hell of a lot of money per year. I would like someone to publish W-2's. ALPA tells me I'm not far off from Southwest, but the Southwest pilots are telling me different. I would like to know who's telling the truth. It's pretty sad how you just want to get rid of me. You would think you would want this place to be a premier place to work and not just a stepping stone. I have a junior buddy of mine who bid to the 737 recently to just get the type rating so he can move on. I know a 7er pilot who went to UPS while furloughed. He was furloughed from UPS and is back here. I asked him if he is going to stay when UPS recalls him. His answer was "hell no." The reason is UPS just pays too much more. It all comes down to the money and time off. I don't get much of either as a commuter on reserve.
I posted something similar in frustration about Alaska and some guy jumps on here with the overused, wornout, tiresome, moronic phrase "why dont you quit and go over to Alaska then". You should know by now, you arent allowed to say anything negative as your company shrinks, your competitor grows or is making more money than you. Don't try to push for change. Just suck it up or quit and go to the other company. Got it?
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: DAL 330
[QUOTE=tsquare;1078668]I couldn't care less if you leave or stay. It's up to you. If you want the money so bad.. and it really is that much better.... then go. Nobody here is gonna stop you. As a matter of fact, I am sure there are a few guys junior to you that would be happy to see you leave too, just as you would those senior to you. Get the type... go to SWA.. make lots of money.. be happy. I'm guessing you won't crack the top 50% there for at least as long as here too.. Same grass.. different septic tank.
Oh, and I think that DAL IS the premier place to work. Life is not all about the money.
T,
DAL was the premier place to work and might still be for some Captains, but is probably not for most FO's anymore. One thing is for sure - if DAL does not want to "invest" in labor, specifically pilots, the days of DAL being guys first choice are over.
Sure we may have 12,000 applications on file but when FDX, SWA, UPS etc are all hiring at the same time as Delta, we will be getting their leftovers. At my former military squadrons guys all want SWA, FDX, UPS, as their first choice. The guys will all come to DAL ........ if they cant get on at any of these. It does not have to be this way and this next contract will be telling.
Along these lines - If the DAL pilots, meaning us, keep doing a bang up job and giving 110% under our basically BK contract - Why should the company invest in us? They will not "invest" in us unless it gains them something.
Scoop
Oh, and I think that DAL IS the premier place to work. Life is not all about the money.
T,
DAL was the premier place to work and might still be for some Captains, but is probably not for most FO's anymore. One thing is for sure - if DAL does not want to "invest" in labor, specifically pilots, the days of DAL being guys first choice are over.
Sure we may have 12,000 applications on file but when FDX, SWA, UPS etc are all hiring at the same time as Delta, we will be getting their leftovers. At my former military squadrons guys all want SWA, FDX, UPS, as their first choice. The guys will all come to DAL ........ if they cant get on at any of these. It does not have to be this way and this next contract will be telling.
Along these lines - If the DAL pilots, meaning us, keep doing a bang up job and giving 110% under our basically BK contract - Why should the company invest in us? They will not "invest" in us unless it gains them something.
Scoop
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
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For all the Mil guys out there. Delta does keep track of the 5 cumulative/consecutive year rule for mil leave and in fact they will make a very nice call to you when you near the 5 year mark and politely ask you to return or resign (its just business) They are very aware of all of the types of title 10 orders out there as the various letters and exemptions. Keep in mind I am referring to 5 year blocks of mil leave, not 30 days here and 45 there.
Actually, 16.5 years to crack the top half of the list is not to bad. It is 25% better than all of the 2000-2001 hires who are looking at 21 years to get into the top half of the list.
480 retirements between now and the end of 2015 that is why they are not hiring. No hiring in 2012 according to recent re-indoc class visits by big wigs. They truly seemed unconcerned about staffing, everybody was surprised. (and kinda depressed)
Good Luck to all it has been a crap decade.
Actually, 16.5 years to crack the top half of the list is not to bad. It is 25% better than all of the 2000-2001 hires who are looking at 21 years to get into the top half of the list.
480 retirements between now and the end of 2015 that is why they are not hiring. No hiring in 2012 according to recent re-indoc class visits by big wigs. They truly seemed unconcerned about staffing, everybody was surprised. (and kinda depressed)
Good Luck to all it has been a crap decade.
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I would leave for Southwest in a heartbeat. A fourth year first officer makes about $6,000 more/month than me. I make about 7 grand gross, he makes 13 grand gross. It's pretty evident from ALPA's stance that I cannot expect an 85% raise. Don't even start about retirement. Southwest has a 9 percent match. Their match is greater than what Delta gives me (I'm part of the 150 screwed NWA guys with no pension and less retirement percentage than every single other pilot on the list). I'm starting to think that I will be pushing hard to get on at Southwest after our contract is settled. ALPA has managed my expectations way down.
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
... 480 retirements between now and the end of 2015 that is why they are not hiring. No hiring in 2012 according to recent re-indoc class visits by big wigs. They truly seemed unconcerned about staffing, everybody was surprised. (and kinda depressed)
Good Luck to all it has been a crap decade.
Good Luck to all it has been a crap decade.
Also go there if you want to look forward to it being a good 20 years from now until you're half way up the list due to retirements.
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
80, you are missing how this works friend. We are being used right now to undermine the negotiations of another organized labor group. I am pointing out how this works so you'll understand when it happens to us:
Air France's Cabin Crew called a strike and were only able to ground 12% of the operations. That's nearly no bargaining leverage.
Oct. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Air France's 15,000 cabin crew disrupted flights for a third day in protest at cuts to staffing levels, grounding about 12 percent of services including long- haul trips to Atlanta, Los Angeles, Montreal and Washington.
Air France-KLM Group fell 6.9 percent in Paris after its French unit said 88 percent of 1,000 scheduled flights would operate today, with about 120 halted yesterday and 130 on Oct. 29. Unions put the cancellations at 171 and 209 respectively.
Cabin-crew unions have called a strike for Oct. 29 to Nov. 2, spanning the All Saints Day holiday, one of France's busiest travel periods, as they seek to halt plans to cut staff levels on Airbus SAS single-aisle jets. Air France is seeking to cut costs after an earnings slump forced the departure this month of Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, its chief executive officer.
"You don't want strikes but if it means they're confronting issues that need confronting then it could be good for the long term," said Jonathan Wober, an analyst at Societe Generale in London who cut his rating on Air France-KLM to "sell" from "hold" today because of the carrier's traffic-growth outlook.
Air France-KLM fell 41 cents to 5.51 euros in the French capital, where the company is based. Europe's No. 1 airline has lost 60 percent this year, the worst performance on the six- member Bloomberg EMEA Airlines Index, which is down 32 percent.
"Clients are being held hostage by a five-day strike for which there's no reason," Air France said yesterday. "Management negotiated day and night for 10 days and responded favorably to 90 percent of the flight attendant unions' demands."
The Paris airports of Charles de Gaulle, Europe's second busiest, and Orly, as well as the terminal in Marseille, are among those affected. The dispute is deepening as Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. resumed flights today after a labor regulator barred stoppages that prompted the carrier to ground its fleet, stranding about 80,000 passengers over the weekend.
Air France is trying to restrict cancellations to high- frequency European routes, where it's easier to rebook seats, spokeswoman Brigitte Barrand said today by phone. U.S. services were halted because the company was able to shift people to services flown by SkyTeam alliance partner Delta Air Lines Ltd.
Read more: Air France Halts 12% of Flights as Crew Strike for Third Day
Air France-KLM Group fell 6.9 percent in Paris after its French unit said 88 percent of 1,000 scheduled flights would operate today, with about 120 halted yesterday and 130 on Oct. 29. Unions put the cancellations at 171 and 209 respectively.
Cabin-crew unions have called a strike for Oct. 29 to Nov. 2, spanning the All Saints Day holiday, one of France's busiest travel periods, as they seek to halt plans to cut staff levels on Airbus SAS single-aisle jets. Air France is seeking to cut costs after an earnings slump forced the departure this month of Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, its chief executive officer.
"You don't want strikes but if it means they're confronting issues that need confronting then it could be good for the long term," said Jonathan Wober, an analyst at Societe Generale in London who cut his rating on Air France-KLM to "sell" from "hold" today because of the carrier's traffic-growth outlook.
Air France-KLM fell 41 cents to 5.51 euros in the French capital, where the company is based. Europe's No. 1 airline has lost 60 percent this year, the worst performance on the six- member Bloomberg EMEA Airlines Index, which is down 32 percent.
"Clients are being held hostage by a five-day strike for which there's no reason," Air France said yesterday. "Management negotiated day and night for 10 days and responded favorably to 90 percent of the flight attendant unions' demands."
The Paris airports of Charles de Gaulle, Europe's second busiest, and Orly, as well as the terminal in Marseille, are among those affected. The dispute is deepening as Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. resumed flights today after a labor regulator barred stoppages that prompted the carrier to ground its fleet, stranding about 80,000 passengers over the weekend.
Air France is trying to restrict cancellations to high- frequency European routes, where it's easier to rebook seats, spokeswoman Brigitte Barrand said today by phone. U.S. services were halted because the company was able to shift people to services flown by SkyTeam alliance partner Delta Air Lines Ltd.
Read more: Air France Halts 12% of Flights as Crew Strike for Third Day
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
What if Delta just continues to outsource our flying and tells us in late 2016, "hey you want some of your flying back in Contract 2012? ... he ha, buy it from us." Just taking post merger shrinkage and straight line compounding, we will be 37% smaller by then.
What leverage do we have?
I'd like to hear the SWA plus group explain how we get that raise when the Company is exercising their muscles to replace us.
What these reporters are missing is that Delta pulling capacity down does not necessarily save us a dime (or earn more profit) we still pay for our 50% of the Joint Venture flying ... we simply pay someone else to fly it.
If I'm wrong, someone school me.
What leverage do we have?
I'd like to hear the SWA plus group explain how we get that raise when the Company is exercising their muscles to replace us.
Alaska reported 6% higher mainline capacity, this quarter and expects it grow another 4% in Q4. The carrier is expanding its service between San Diego and Hawaii, with the launch of daily nonstop flight to Honolulu in November. Hawaii now accounts for about 20% of the network for Alaska.
For 2012, the carrier is guiding for a capacity growth of about 5%, primarily adding capacity into Hawaii and in regional markets such as Seattle to Spokane, Boise and Kansas City. Alaska views this growth to be in line with its profitability goals as this is driven by back filling of competitive capacity that has left the market.
For 2012, the carrier is guiding for a capacity growth of about 5%, primarily adding capacity into Hawaii and in regional markets such as Seattle to Spokane, Boise and Kansas City. Alaska views this growth to be in line with its profitability goals as this is driven by back filling of competitive capacity that has left the market.
Hauenstein admits that in hindsight: "There was excess capacity from the industry and from us." Part of the capacity dump could be attributed to the relatively young joint ventures created by the three large airline alliances in the Atlantic market and their acclimation to joint network planning.
Relative to the transatlantic joint venture partners in the SkyTeam tie-up - Delta, Air France and Alitalia - Hauenstin says: "I think this has been a learning process for us as we go through the first two years of our joint venture." Delta and its SkyTeam partners applied lessons learned and have moved to assure that the joint venture's collective transatlantic capacity, which entails routes between North America and Europe, is falling by 7-9%, or 15 points, during the winter season, versus previous growth projections of 7-8%.
Relative to the transatlantic joint venture partners in the SkyTeam tie-up - Delta, Air France and Alitalia - Hauenstin says: "I think this has been a learning process for us as we go through the first two years of our joint venture." Delta and its SkyTeam partners applied lessons learned and have moved to assure that the joint venture's collective transatlantic capacity, which entails routes between North America and Europe, is falling by 7-9%, or 15 points, during the winter season, versus previous growth projections of 7-8%.
The North American transatlantic market during the summer is also seeing a rise in average seat count, driven by Air France and Lufthansa expanding their US A380 operations, Jenks notes. Average aircraft size has risen from 252.4 seats in 2010 to 255.8, underpinned by the addition of a total of five new A380 frequencies introduced during the summer. Lufthansa has added A380 flights from Frankfurt to New York Kennedy, Miami and San Francisco while Air France expanded its Paris-Atlanta A380-operated service introduced last year with the addition of Paris-Washington DC and San Francisco.
If I'm wrong, someone school me.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 11-01-2011 at 11:10 PM.
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