Attilla is a joke, whoever designed it is the only ones profiting.

Could it be de-icing numbers? I noticed that as well, especially in the mornings.

 

IDK - maybe? I was on the late shift all 4 days, with great weather everywhere.

 

I found this to be an interesting claim so I looked into it for you

A Jan 2007 hire at SWA can hold any base as a line holding FO within the integrated seniority list. The orders and deliveries show 2.1% growth including the replacement of the convertible 73's and 717's. Upgrade will occur in 7 years from now.

These numbers come from the integrated SWA seniority list, and the calculator provided that shows seniority in all bases and upgrade time.

 

All valid points. For a west coaster, my perspective is a bit different. For your friend, perhaps living near base, sitting rsv for LUV isn't such a bad deal. I commute 6-8 hours each time to sit rsv, and i won't see any upgrade in west coast for 17-20 years, much even holding a line, and I'm an early 08 hire.

 

PMFJI, but I think 80 was talking about someone Hockeypilot's tenure, which is the end of January 2008. Does the integrated list look any different from there, as the LUV crew moved ahead of all the similarly tenured AAI pilots?

 

It makes for a good conspiracy but I'm not ready to write off the senior guys as a bunch of back stabbing traitors like that. Maybe a few here and there, but definately not the majority and absolutely not the majority of the group over all.

Guys that would do something like that are outnumbered by those would be harmed by it more than helped, and I don't think most would be that trecherous in the first place.

If it were that simple, we would vote to invert the pay scales and/or the seniority list instead, giving the demographics in the middle a slightly larger bump. Wouldn't that be a "smart business decision"? There is no intelligence at all in a pilot using that kind of logic.

Sell out everyone else by gutting even more scope for a raise that still puts him well under a profitable low cost competitor with 100% scope?

For anyone to even consider being such a back stabbing traitor to the profession in general and their fellow pilot group in particular, the rewards would have to be staggering to even consider. There is just not that much value in a 100 seater for management to offer to make such a betrayal palatable. Even if they did, the level of support would progressively be less than a majority in the first place. And I don't think most guys in the "retirement zone" are that trecherous in the first place. Even if they were (which they aren't) it would never get past a vote and the fact that it was attempted would be a catalyst for an "equal and oppositite" attack against their demographic by others that would benefit from pillaging the time value of money in their remaining years.

Its a battle of diminishing returns from the opening salvo with no chance of "victory" even if you somehow define "victory" as gutting the entire profession and your pilot group in particular for a one time raise in the retirement zone.

Have some faith in your fellow pilots. We have to have eachother's backs here. The biggest threat will be management, old guard ALPA and pressure from national to vote for a crappy TA or your NC will quit or you'll get parked for 5 years, etc. That is our enemy here, not senior pilots.

 

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Gloopy distills it accurately.

 

It's not my job to bash SWA projections, but:

1.) Do you think it's a fair comparison to use SWA pilots seniority from the integrated seniority list? I understand that they just got a big bump from the SLI, but are they able to exercise that increased seniority right now?

2.) Do you you thinks it's wise to base upgrade time based on the company's projected 2.1% growth? I've never seen a company grow after a merger and all the SWA commercials I see that tout "new service" are routes that Air Tran served for years. If I had a dollar for every time an airline made the unfulfilled promise that a merger would increase synergies and actually see growth because of it, I'd have an extra $10 by now.

 

I used 2007 as a baseline for your last hiring wave.

The numbers are different for a Jan 08 hire. Still a line holding FO with an FO base seniority between 56%-90% (OAK-DAL). Upgrade in 9 years if there are no other aircraft orders/options. SWA hired a lot in 07-08 and I think that's part of the disparity.

The SWA crews received an average seniority bump of around 10%. The FL crews lost an average of 20% and an extreme of 34%.