Sink, seniority already buys pilots nearly 2/3rds of the month off. I haven't cracked 30 yet, and there have been only a few months this past year that i passed 80 and not by much. Meanwhile because of the way weekends are now staffed those guys routinely break 100-120 raw scores. Seniority is already in play and there are two buckets, weekends off and no weekends off which is rarely fly or always fly. Seniority does matter and it should.

Seniority should be in place to ensure you can work the trip you want when you have to work but not give you the month off while the guy 1 junior works the entire month in your place. Seniority with a line for the same amount of pay doesn't get you time off. It gets you the days and trips you want. On reserve it used to get you the days, and adding some weight for sc days and trip preferencing when you do have to work makes sense. I'm okay with bringing back a high yellow, add 15 points to your score, have at it.

But I am not going to champion a cause where one never has to work and others pick up his load for the same amount of money.

The way I see it this is like telling every pilot in a category that the top 5% will be paid ALV and have the month off because they're the top 5%, now carry on. Oh wait, except that the rest of you will need to pick up their work for no credit starting not with the plug but rather in reverse seniority order starting with Mr 50%.

 

1140 inches ... got the T-shirt, and I remember skiing around those trenches they dug for the lift chairs! Also I was just up there over the MLK weekend, they have photos of that year at the end of the wall of B&W historical shots in the main lodge - starting with the horseback ride to scout if a road was feasible (1910's?) . And they got about 20 inches of snow while I was there. Sweet. I mean IT SUCKS UP HERE - DON'T MOVE HERE EITHER!

 

Every category will be slightly different, why dont we settle down and see how it all shakes out for a month or two before we burn the house down. I am for injecting some seniority into the process, not at the point that the tops works zero and the bottom works it all, but gentlemen....
We live in a seniority world......

 

Thanks FTB,

I understand your concern, but here are some points to consider:

1) Under the old system, we needed 30% Reserves. Under the new system, 15%. The new system is far, far more efficient, from the company's standpoint. They absolutely hated paying four guys guys CAP-5 hours, where two flew nothing, and the other two flew max. So now they can replace the four with two at 70 hours. Beautiful.

Unless you're a pilot.

Would you like 15% more pilots?

2) Under the old system, the hierarchy doesn't start at 50%, where 50% and below has to pick up "someone else's work". 50% and below might fly more, but everyone along the list had the option to go high, or low, for any given day, any given flying. That ordered all flying, from 1%, to 100%. IOW, everyone, in seniority order, could try to hide from the crap, or go high for the juicy stuff. The bottom 50% flew more, sure, but then again, under the new system, the bottom 50% of Reserves, or the bottom 15%, are unconcerned with Reserves at Delta, because they're busy flying at ASA and Pinnacle.



You have to look at the effects of the entire system on staffing, and the way it worked before, when things were right, rather than worry about about who gets to have maggots in their rice now that we're all in a camp.

 

I don't disagree and I know its category contingent, but if I see a 80 raw score threshold for bucket 1 then I will complain and complain and complain (like a senior pilot would ) until something is done to lower it.

Me too, here's the deal as I see it.

On a domestic NB the guy sitting at 50% will now be a new plug instead of just Mr. 50%.

Here's why. We both know that the way they cover weekends means that if you touch a weekend you fly. In fact on the 88 there were times there were 80 guys on reserve on Monday but they put out GSs the day before in clear weather.
So 50% is the new plug in our system except even the plug got a reprieve as they worked.
This isn't a loss of QOL for junior pilots as they fly a lot anyways, this hits the pilots in the middle to top pretty hard that had some QOL. Hence, its interjecting seniority but ironically taking it away from a large percentage of senior pilots. That's why I don't like it, it gives to a few that already had a tremendous QOL and probably won't see a difference and takes from those who had a QOL.

That's how I see it unfolding if bucket #1 is as large as 80 points. We've added seniority for a few and taken it from so many more.

 

my computer is about to die, in my haste to post I've got to repair my previous post and don't have long before it becomes permanent. So I'll get back to you later Mr.

 

Take your time.

I'm reading your last post, and it doesn't make much sense. If the bucket is large (i.e. 80), and Mr. 50% has flown to a RAW score of 81, he's pretty much off for two weeks, using your logic, since everyone else has to pump up their score to >80 before they're in the same bucket again.

At that point, he's up again, and why shouldn't he be first?

The bottom line: RAW scores absolutely suck, and RAW buckets are still exactly what they sound like. The bigger the better, but no self-respecting pilot wants to swim in anything by that name.

 

If Mr. 50% flies the first week then yes it will take maybe 2 to 3 weeks to fly again under the current system.

But in the new system you have to get above 80 to get to bucket #2. So unless you nail 2 4-days in the first two weeks you'll probably still be in bucket 1 in week 3 and number 1 to fly. Say you have a 4 day, 3 day and SC and it's only worth 78. You're still #1 in week 3 and they give you a 4 day.

So now you have a raw score of 90+ and 60 hours of flying and getting paid 70. Meanwhile guy #1 is 0 hours and maybe one or two SCs and getting paid 70.

Under the current system you'd flown 20 hours and got paid 70. So would guy #1.

Hence, do we want a system that gives the top 50% near equal QOL or take that QOL away from those sitting 20-50% to give the top 20% (or maybe top 10%) the same QOL they have now anyways?

HA! I MADE IT! (see if my above post is any better, I am getting 5% warning now)...

 

Did I read that right. We allowed the company to reduce reserve staffing by 15%? What did we get in return. If this is true, DALPA should have used this as a bargaining credit.

 

A RAW score of 80 isn't even close to 60-65 hours. If you've done two long three-days, you're there. I get you point about being just under 80, say 78, and having to go out again, but once you go out again, you're done for a while. It doesn't matter so much what the bucket size is, it matters that there are buckets at all. But if you're going to have buckets, the larger the bucket, the least efficieint the operation, the better the staffing.

I don't see that. Right now you have nothing. You're completely at the mercy of the scheduler, based on how they apply SC or Days of Availability. All seniority buys you NOW is days off.

Damn you! I could have been RIGHT for a few minutes.