Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Then get off your fat *** and go make it better. Nothing would make me happier than watching you flounder around so I could throw tomatoes at you. I know, crying like a little girl on the forum is much easier. Boo hoo for you too.

Originally Posted by PilotFrog

I know the MEC got the super secret brief on the AF/KLM pay rates and contract, but does anyone know how much AF and KLM pilots make?

Originally Posted by Jesse

Good gawd it's hard to read your posts sometimes with all the wrong words you put in a paragraph.

Does the word "moderation" mean anything to you? "We got what we wanted"....ahhhhhh, No. More respect for seniority was desired: e.g. make a YS do what a YS should do-Good. Allow a pilot to list a trip he'd rather have if he had to fly, but didn't necessarily want to fly-Good. Put in place a SC system that awards some point to the RAW score-Good. All very good and praiseworthy changes. But there's respecting seniority and then there's using it to abuse your fellow pilots. I could see this as a bitter pill you have to swallow if it weren't for the stagnation that has been here and will be here for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, the fact is stagnation is here and will be here.

Some say this is what the majority of pilots wanted. Well, I believe that you can get away with that statement to a point because the vast majority did want some changes; changes that came with the LOA. But it's a huge assumption that what we have now is what a vast majority wanted. The sentiment I'm seeing is that the majority think this bucket system with it's current values is not in line with what they envisioned. It still doesn't do anything to prevent a senior pilot with a one point lower RAW score to avoid getting a trip that a junior pilot would otherwise get (when the two are in separate buckets). A system that gave a pilot a consistent and continuous advantage in RAW points regardless of how much flying or SCs he's done would prevent this from happening. But giving a pilot 80 pts from the start is out of line with what I believe many think is right.

The voices you hear now are mostly speaking up for smaller buckets. Trying to quiet them with "This is what the majority wanted" will not work and avoids the concern many have. Furthermore, if you want to change it you have to speak up, so expect to keep hearing it.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Nice try at class warfare. If John Wayne were alive he would reach across the console (think High and Mighty) and give you a couple of slaps. Fuel prices have risen dramatically in the last few years. Delta has two options: they can flood the market with seats lose tons of money and then go bankrupt or they can control capacity and make money.

Last year Delta faced a large spike in fuel costs, ice storms, earthquake, volcanoes, slow US economy, recession in Europe, growth slowdown in China, stagnant Japanese economy and I am sure I have left some out.

The result: You got a five percent compensation increase and a healthy profit sharing check coming in four days. Your response: self pity because you aren't moving up. Boo hoo for you. I made MD-88 f/o in year 2 and then was still there 7 years later. Boo hoo for me. My fourth year B-Scale pay rate on the 88 was less than our current probationary pay. Boo hoo for me.

So yes after 20+ years I am stagnated at a much higher level than you but certainly you have been around the industry long enough to understand the seniority system at Delta. When was the last time that Delta hired direct entry Captains? In the 40's maybe during the war, I really have no idea. If someone promised you never ending growth, it wasn't me, I have lived the up and down too much.

Back in 2005 and 2006 when everyone else thought I was crazy, I was clamoring for our MEC to think about merging. We had these wild boom and bust cycles from 85-91 (boom) 91-96 (bust) (96-2001) boom (01-06) the Mother of All Busts. What about that prospect seems enticing to you? I have got the bankruptcy T-Shirt and I don't need another.

In 2007 the MEC, as consolidation seemed inevitable, undertook a strategy to enhance and accelerate the merger and obtain contractual improvements as a result of the merger. Everyone saw the need for consolidation and the hope was that airlines would no longer ride the massive up and down roller coaster but rationally control capacity and pricing to produce significant profits, profits that could be used to fill back up our wallets. As yet, no one has been able to even imitate our success.

Well 2011 pretty much proved that hypothesis. Consolidation has brought solid results in a year when there was excuse after excuse for management to show losses. Along the way, Delta pilots have recaptured $2 billion in value from our JCBA, more if you include profit sharing. How many months had you been a Delta pilot when you got several thousand shares of Delta stock, not options, stock placed in your retirement account? That was a pretty nice welcome to Delta present.

Your situation is that you just got a bigger raise on Jan 1 than US Airways, American, Continental, and United have gotten combined over the last 4 years. Think about that, 16 years of contracts versus 1. The MEC is now running at max velocity aiming to have our second post bankruptcy contract done before all the rest of them get their first.

I would say I am sorry you are stagnated, but I'm not. Growth for growth's sake is moronic and whatever short term sugar high it gives you the downside crash always produces more pain than the growth did. Anyone that thinks they should leave Delta right now for some short term sugar high at another carrier would be making a huge mistake. Delta is now years ahead of their competitors. Look at our revenue momentum. We are now on solid financial footing and have all the pieces in place to act as a buyer and consolidator rather than a target for fragmentation.

So, please, play the class warfare card on me, I am immune to forum attacks now, they are all just a little childish and my kids are all grown now. You should thank your lucky stars that you are where you are right now. This is a long game and your time horizon should be measured in years and not weeks. All the rest of you too, quit feeling sorry for yourselves it is unbecoming.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Glad you got yours and are happy.

Others just aren't content sitting around, moving backwards or stagnating for a decade of their lives. Guy I just did some work for quit Piedmont, recently retired #7 at Southwest. Think we all could agree he did well when he saw what US Air's path was and left.

Delta's outlook needs clarification. The market has rewarded those with the flexibility and willingness to seek opportunity.

At some point Wilbur and Orville must have decided, pedaling big wheel bikes sucks ... lets build an airplane. The first step is always the admission that something could be done better with a little effort.

Originally Posted by More Bacon

So you're not disagreeing that you are getting FPL for this.
Let the obfuscation continue.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Then get off your fat *** and go make it better. Nothing would make me happier than watching you flounder around so I could throw tomatoes at you. I know, crying like a little girl on the forum is much easier. Boo hoo for you too.