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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1143948)
They've put a ton of $$$ in them. They're here until they get that money back. Lots of airlines still fly 4 engine airplanes. Just because they twice as many motors doesn't mean they don't make $$$.
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Originally Posted by newKnow
(Post 1143954)
I can't find ts's post, so I have to quote you, Ferd but.....
Didn't we did get a pay raise post 9/11 that put us up near the top, if not at the top of the industry for a while? Ferd |
In other news the ComAir CEO stepped down as well.
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 1143949)
What the company wants is pay banding. It could be a good thing on narrow body jets, but on the 744, as soon as we agreed to band it with say the 330,765,and ER I bet we would see the 773 or 748i.
It depends on what this pilot group wants, but as with everything, there are unintended consequences for every action. We are currently not seeing those jets because it is cheaper for us to operate the 767-300ER's across the pond and AF operate the large metal. Banding may allow larger jets to be placed at DAL, but one must weigh the pros and cons of banding in both cases, then vote on it. |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1143952)
So if I understand your logic correctly, should the 747 pay the same as the 767 (widebody band) and the 757 should pay what the dc-9 pays, or is there some upside in pay banding aside from saving training costs?
The 747/777/330/765 make up 12% of the fleet.. period. Management's decision to buy those airplanes, or NOT buy those airplanes, which they aren't... and you have been here long enough to know that they ain't gonna buy any more 747s. What airplane has management bought lately? 737-900. A replacement to the 757 and 767. Will it pay as much as the aircraft they are replacing? I'll let you decide for yourself on that one. Personally, I doubt it.. So we.. once again.. take pay cut based on a management decision. Why do we handcuff ourselves to that contract after contract? I would prefer longevity based pay based on how long you have been here, but that is too hard a sell, so I concede to banding because it gives some guys a little comfort with the whole productivity thing.. (that is a myth, because yet again.. WE do not buy airplanes, management does.) Oh, I would leave the 757 in the widebody band, but since they are going away, it really wouldn't matter... What I would LOVE is for somebody to convince me that productivity is a valid reason for staying away from banded pay. However, that logic cannot say anything about faster more people more cargo, because as I said before, management makes the purchasing decisions. It would be up to us to make us expensive enough so that they would want economy of scale. Bottom line for me is.. I push throttles. Pay me for doing so. While I love the 76, I don't really care what the airplane is as long as I am getting paid to fly it. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1143962)
Smaller jets can mean more jobs. Just food for thought everyone.
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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1143974)
The 747/777/330/765 make up 12% of the fleet.. period. Management's decision to buy those airplanes, or NOT buy those airplanes, which they aren't... and you have been here long enough to know that they ain't gonna buy any more 747s. What airplane has management bought lately? 737-900. A replacement to the 757 and 767. Will it pay as much as the aircraft they are replacing? I'll let you decide for yourself on that one. Personally, I doubt it.. So we.. once again.. take pay cut based on a management decision. Why do we handcuff ourselves to that contract after contract? I would prefer longevity based pay based on how long you have been here, but that is too hard a sell, so I concede to banding because it gives some guys a little comfort with the whole productivity thing.. (that is a myth, because yet again.. WE do not buy airplanes, management does.) Oh, I would leave the 757 in the widebody band, but since they are going away, it really wouldn't matter...
What I would LOVE is for somebody to convince me that productivity is a valid reason for staying away from banded pay. However, that logic cannot say anything about faster more people more cargo, because as I said before, management makes the purchasing decisions. It would be up to us to make us expensive enough so that they would want economy of scale. Bottom line for me is.. I push throttles. Pay me for doing so. While I love the 76, I don't really care what the airplane is as long as I am getting paid to fly it. |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 1143949)
What the company wants is pay banding. It could be a good thing on narrow body jets, but on the 744, as soon as we agreed to band it with say the 330,765,and ER I bet we would see the 773 or 748i.
It depends on what this pilot group wants, but as with everything, there are unintended consequences for every action. We are currently not seeing those jets because it is cheaper for us to operate the 767-300ER's across the pond and AF operate the large metal. Banding may allow larger jets to be placed at DAL, but one must weigh the pros and cons of banding in both cases, then vote on it. |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 1143978)
It may mean more jobs, but they may pay significantly less. Banding may also create more jobs, but at a lower pay rate than the 777/744 would get alone. It is not just quantity but quality. RJ's and their pay rates have proven that.
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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1143974)
The 747/777/330/765 make up 12% of the fleet.. period. Management's decision to buy those airplanes, or NOT buy those airplanes, which they aren't... and you have been here long enough to know that they ain't gonna buy any more 747s. What airplane has management bought lately? 737-900. A replacement to the 757 and 767. Will it pay as much as the aircraft they are replacing? I'll let you decide for yourself on that one. Personally, I doubt it.. So we.. once again.. take pay cut based on a management decision. Why do we handcuff ourselves to that contract after contract? I would prefer longevity based pay based on how long you have been here, but that is too hard a sell, so I concede to banding because it gives some guys a little comfort with the whole productivity thing.. (that is a myth, because yet again.. WE do not buy airplanes, management does.) Oh, I would leave the 757 in the widebody band, but since they are going away, it really wouldn't matter...
What I would LOVE is for somebody to convince me that productivity is a valid reason for staying away from banded pay. However, that logic cannot say anything about faster more people more cargo, because as I said before, management makes the purchasing decisions. It would be up to us to make us expensive enough so that they would want economy of scale. Bottom line for me is.. I push throttles. Pay me for doing so. While I love the 76, I don't really care what the airplane is as long as I am getting paid to fly it. RA has commented on the four engine jets many times throughout the last decade, but keep in mind; The 748i is 20% more efficient than the 744. If DAL knows they can fill it, it makes sense to buy a handful of them. It just depends on where they want the airline to go. If they opt to operate an airline the 773 and the 748 could have their place. The 789 will also be a major player in our fleet going forward for those point to point routes in Asia, and the ME. The 748i would be good on ATL-ICN (good enough for a 380), ATL-DXB, ATL-CAI, NYC-TLV, DTW-HKG, DTW-ICN, LAX-ICN, ATL-NRT, LAX-NRT, ATL-JNB etc. Anywhere we need a lot of cargo lift it makes sense. Frequency can solve that, but we lack lift and frequency in to a lot of markets. |
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