Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1143625)

I'm not sure I get your point, Bar. The object of the entire exercise is a contract, right? If that can be accomplished, and pronto, you don't have to take either of the two poor choices you mention.

I think the philosophy of constructive engagement that served us well in the merger will be really tested with the contract, and proven as a farce, or a successful tool. The back-stop should be the vote: we will get to see the results of this philosophy before we buy (or refuse) those results. Meanwhile, assuming there is even a chance management is willing to deal, and ssuming they're not dropping the bomb on us, why not try a collaborative model for some period of time? Once we go to the traditional model, we can pretty much park ourselves for a while, and wait for the endless mediation sessions before we can even think of getting released, only to get to a PEB. This could take years. At which point your prophecy of quitting might be open, but illegal self-help certainly won't: we'll just get UsAired.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1143620)

Not to mention that Delta's overall financial position is still horrible. We have massive amounts of debt and a giant bill for fleet replacement of our antique fleet thats going to come due in the next 10 years. SW has none of those issues.

Originally Posted by Doug Masters (Post 1143634)

So are you saying we need to help subsidize our fleet replacement?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1144040)

Just to clarify, if a US President invokes a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB), it only delays things 30 days. Then one more 30 day cooling off period begins, then a strike can happen. PEB's can only delay things 60 days.

Carl

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1143713)

Everybody is entitled to an opinion. I find it fascinating though that so many fNWA guys wax nostalgic for the old days when the relationship they had with management basically sucked. I don't want that kind of work environment here. Call it koolaid drinking.. "whistling past the garveyard" whatever catch phrase you wish, but I want little to do with the way you did things at NWA... life is too short to hate coming to work wondering when management or the other employee groups are gonna screw me. But just out of curiosity, how many industry leading contracts did NWA get while you were there? How did they get those industry leading contracts? Did they get them while there was upward movement in the industry or did they somehow manage to garner wage and benefit increases contrary to what everybody else was doing? I am not "hoping" that someone else sets the bar.. we have done that in the past at Delta. But it is much easier to leapfrog if you don't live in a vacuum.

Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin (Post 1144046)

Partially correct. We're not guaranteed the ability to strike after the 60 days.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1144040)

Just to clarify, if a US President invokes a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB), it only delays things 30 days. Then one more 30 day cooling off period begins, then a strike can happen. PEB's can only delay things 60 days.

Carl

Originally Posted by Kingbird87 (Post 1143735)

We didn't "hate coming to work". We loved it! We knew that other pilots "had our back" and the camaraderie that came with unity more than made up for the illusion that a hired gun occupant of "Building A" was a nice guy or not. FWIW, I think we have terrific management at Delta Air Lines, and they are doing their job. We, are not. I'm not calling it "kool aid drinking" I'm calling it fear. We floated this boat. The heavy sacrifice of Delta and Northwest Airlines pilots in bankruptcy created the company that leads the world. Let Management manage, I expect a Labor Union to exploit opportunity where it is seen. The problem is, wanting to "have a nice day at work" is not an opportunity, it is denial that any of our efforts and sacrifices had anything to do with Management's success and reward.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1144048)

The ONLY thing that can stop your ability to strike after a PEB is the US Congress intervening and imposing a contract on you. Other than that specific congressional action, your right to strike is guaranteed by law.

Carl

Originally Posted by Kingbird87 (Post 1143746)

We got one in 1998. We reversed the B scale misery index American and Delta and United forced on it's younger pilots. We Struck! That's how. We went first. And until C2K, there was never a whits worth of difference in what NWA had vs. anyone else. A LBO figured into all this, and still when faced with adversity, we always manned up and built cohesion and consensus. That is what we are supposed to do.

Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin (Post 1144056)

Other than "that"^^^^^^That's an awfully big "other". At that point you're going all in. Better hope you have the winning hand.