What I've bolded above is the falsehood upon which you've based your argument on pay banding. Truth is, none of us knows this to be true. In fact (as acl65pilot posted earlier), the new 747-8i could likely provide irresistible levels of CASM to Delta.

While you're entitled to your opinion, your bolded statement above is simply not factual.

Carl

Sorry for thread drift gents but I need to check loads again for tomorrow, if it's tight I'll have to buy a ticket instead of jumpseating.

It's for Saturday march 3, ATL-MBJ, 8:30am and 9:49am flights, can you also list if any non revs are listed? Thanks much!

That option is available to them right now. Why don't they do that? Because it would VASTLY increase their costs. It's cheaper for us to fly one 747-400 than the 3 or more narrow bodies it would take to fly the same passengers and cargo. Passengers would love it though, because all the surveys show that they prefer more frequency. The airline cannot give that to them though because of the large increase in costs.

Pay banding could well exacerbate this point. With pay banding, you actually reduce the CASM of wide body aircraft relative to their narrow body counterparts. If you reduce the relative CASM of wide bodies, you incentivize management to buy more of them. More wide bodies mean less need for pilots. That's one of the main reasons ALPA fought hard for this productivity pay when the 707 was introduced decades ago.

Carl

So because we have always done it that way, that's the way we should continue to do it.. I have always HATED that kind of argument. Tradition, is one of the biggest four letter words in the English language. ALPA fought hard for this because back in the day, it made sense. Now however, there is no airliner that is coming off of any production line anywhere in the world that will be designed to go anywhere in excess of .80M. So let's throw that old argument out straight away. Management wanted it that way back then because it made sense for them too. They could garner all that "productivity" increase and keep costs down. Of course that is why they wanted it. They were upgrading the fleets in a technological leap that is unequalled today.



DO you not see the oxymoron in this statement when arguing for "productivity"? The sentence that you make after the bold red one is what I don't get. How do we play into the hands of those who wish to (p)aint us with the brush of being afraid to be productive? The productivity aspect is a management decision.. based on how they schedule, and to an extend, which airframe they buy.. NEITHER of which we have any input to. There is an illusion that we have some control over scheduling, but if that were true, why are there still 3 hour sit arounds in ATL and DTW? I don't know about you, but I hate those sits.... And on top of that, you readily admit that you make your decision based on financial considerations. As a proponent of unionism like you claim to be, I would think you would be great guns for a banded pay rate.. Push throttles.. get pay... simple.




Since being domesticated in my category, I can attest to the above statement as being true. Domestic/International theatre flying each have their own particular difficulties. The funny thing is though that the manipulation of the aircraft is easier the bigger it gets.. sorry, but that's true. You have to admit that 88driver hangs it out far more than you or I do in a given 8 hour period. I do not consider getting a clearance from Gander all that difficult, but I am betting that 88driver is way more physically worn out at the end of a 5 leg day hubbin and spokin in +TRW weather than either you or I upon arriving at NRT or FRA... But I agree that each has it's own risks and skill requirements.. I just cannot justify in my little mind that yours is sufficiently more difficult as to warrant as much more money as you are currently getting.. But I guess because it has always been done that way...

Um.. .OK.. did I miss the announcement of the 747-8 purchase and did I just make up the 737-900 purchase in my mind? Nope.. my statement is 100% factual. Yours is pie in the sky.

Sorry. Mea Culpa.


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Carl

Hey, has anyone received his profit sharing check yet?

Yes we do. And you're already weakening as show by what you've written below:

And continuing the weakening theme:

What do you mean it "doesn't hold water?" It's a fact. Our 757's and 767's pay the same. One is quite a bit larger than the other. That is pay banding...period.

So to recap, we have pay banding on the 757/767, and on the 744/777...but other than that, we have no pay banding! Come on t, don't be so stubborn.

Carl

Mine was sent via direct deposit right on Feb 14th.

Carl,

I like them a little thicker. Do you have any with curves. This one is too skinny for my taste:D

TEN