Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-29-2012 | 11:15 AM
Banned
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There seems to be a few folks on this forum that have quality information, or maybe not. I've heard the Roger statistic of how SWA is 11% ahead of us, and the explantation. I did a little research using Form 41 data from the DOT. Here's what I found:
Average 2010 Wages and Salaries
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0PERSONNEL.htm
Delta $142,800
SWA $166,573
Total 2010 Compensation (wages, benefits, and payroll taxes), i.e. more than what we see in our W2
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...Equivalent.htm
Delta $186,095
SWA $206,000
So I know it's 2010 data, and both airlines have received pay increases since then. Delta received a 4% pay increase each Jan. 1, and 6.52% and 4.8% profit sharing in 2010 and 2011. SWA has received raises as well.
It seems from my perspective that this contract will have to exceed SWA to have much support.
From the Form 41 data, the average Delta pilot will need to make an additional $24,000 in Wages and Salaries, or looking at from total compensation (perhaps unfairly because of payroll taxes), we need to retain any advantages in benefits with total compensation per pilot increasing about $20,000 ($206,000-$186,095).
I think this is a valid analysis of us compared to SWA and a way to measure if we meet or exceed SWA?
Average 2010 Wages and Salaries
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0PERSONNEL.htm
Delta $142,800
SWA $166,573
Total 2010 Compensation (wages, benefits, and payroll taxes), i.e. more than what we see in our W2
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...Equivalent.htm
Delta $186,095
SWA $206,000
So I know it's 2010 data, and both airlines have received pay increases since then. Delta received a 4% pay increase each Jan. 1, and 6.52% and 4.8% profit sharing in 2010 and 2011. SWA has received raises as well.
It seems from my perspective that this contract will have to exceed SWA to have much support.
From the Form 41 data, the average Delta pilot will need to make an additional $24,000 in Wages and Salaries, or looking at from total compensation (perhaps unfairly because of payroll taxes), we need to retain any advantages in benefits with total compensation per pilot increasing about $20,000 ($206,000-$186,095).
I think this is a valid analysis of us compared to SWA and a way to measure if we meet or exceed SWA?
03-29-2012 | 11:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
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From: window seat
Those young whipper snappers are probably saying the same thing me and my flight school buddies were saying in the late 90s; how many $20 envelopes can you put in a 767 verses $200 passengers?
None of us tool our own advice but it's easy to see how the freight business seems far more stable and profitable. I know, I know, there's no money in freight if we do it. Now if AF does it out of ATL for us that's fine. It's like the E-Jets, they suck if we fly them but they order them like mad for someone else to fly.
Also, it's not lost on people that 17 years at FedEx means you can be an MD11 LCA. What does 17 years buy you at DAL, AMR, UsAiR, the United side of UCAL?
None of us tool our own advice but it's easy to see how the freight business seems far more stable and profitable. I know, I know, there's no money in freight if we do it. Now if AF does it out of ATL for us that's fine. It's like the E-Jets, they suck if we fly them but they order them like mad for someone else to fly.
Also, it's not lost on people that 17 years at FedEx means you can be an MD11 LCA. What does 17 years buy you at DAL, AMR, UsAiR, the United side of UCAL?
03-29-2012 | 11:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
03-29-2012 | 11:28 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
Likes: 1
From: Urban chicken rancher.
That's true. I have a buddy flying for Atlas and he spends about half of his time in the Middle East. He was a C-141 guy so he's used to it...in fact, kinda likes it, which is weird.
That's Morningstar Air Cargo.
03-29-2012 | 11:29 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
There seems to be a few folks on this forum that have quality information, or maybe not. I've heard the Roger statistic of how SWA is 11% ahead of us, and the explantation. I did a little research using Form 41 data from the DOT. Here's what I found:
Delta $186,095
SWA $206,000
I think this is a valid analysis of us compared to SWA and a way to measure if we meet or exceed SWA?
Delta $186,095
SWA $206,000
I think this is a valid analysis of us compared to SWA and a way to measure if we meet or exceed SWA?
03-29-2012 | 11:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 3
From: Lowest Pay I Could Find
There seems to be a few folks on this forum that have quality information, or maybe not. I've heard the Roger statistic of how SWA is 11% ahead of us, and the explantation. I did a little research using Form 41 data from the DOT. Here's what I found:
Average 2010 Wages and Salaries
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0PERSONNEL.htm
Delta $142,800
SWA $166,573
Total 2010 Compensation (wages, benefits, and payroll taxes), i.e. more than what we see in our W2
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...Equivalent.htm
Delta $186,095
SWA $206,000
So I know it's 2010 data, and both airlines have received pay increases since then. Delta received a 4% pay increase each Jan. 1, and 6.52% and 4.8% profit sharing in 2010 and 2011. SWA has received raises as well.
It seems from my perspective that this contract will have to exceed SWA to have much support.
From the Form 41 data, the average Delta pilot will need to make an additional $24,000 in Wages and Salaries, or looking at from total compensation (perhaps unfairly because of payroll taxes), we need to retain any advantages in benefits with total compensation per pilot increasing about $20,000 ($206,000-$186,095).
I think this is a valid analysis of us compared to SWA and a way to measure if we meet or exceed SWA?
Average 2010 Wages and Salaries
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0PERSONNEL.htm
Delta $142,800
SWA $166,573
Total 2010 Compensation (wages, benefits, and payroll taxes), i.e. more than what we see in our W2
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...Equivalent.htm
Delta $186,095
SWA $206,000
So I know it's 2010 data, and both airlines have received pay increases since then. Delta received a 4% pay increase each Jan. 1, and 6.52% and 4.8% profit sharing in 2010 and 2011. SWA has received raises as well.
It seems from my perspective that this contract will have to exceed SWA to have much support.
From the Form 41 data, the average Delta pilot will need to make an additional $24,000 in Wages and Salaries, or looking at from total compensation (perhaps unfairly because of payroll taxes), we need to retain any advantages in benefits with total compensation per pilot increasing about $20,000 ($206,000-$186,095).
I think this is a valid analysis of us compared to SWA and a way to measure if we meet or exceed SWA?
Ps....our 88/90 holds more pax than their 73s.
03-29-2012 | 11:37 AM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
03-29-2012 | 11:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
Marketing and Network run the "brand." They decide which division or partner will create their productive capacity. Their decisions are driven by revenue and cost. They don't particularly care if it is a Delta 747 or an Air France A380. Neither do they care whether it is a 757, or a NextGen CRJ. None are old school Delta. None have the nostalgic sensibilities that cloud our judgement. Their considerations are mathematical, pure and simple.
The money they've pee'd away just on RJ outsourcing...not even including other billion dollar mistakes...(over ordering, over paying and over committing for RJ's, the damage to our product, brand and operation and buying high/selling low regionals..twice, etc) you would have to take off your shoes to count the billions. Those same people have made numerous additional billion dollar mistakes in addition to those as well.
To any extent that they are profit oriented bean counter savants is if you only consider short term reactionary herd mentality near term quarterly result/bonus mongering.
They have been weighed, they have been measured, and they have been found wanting.
03-29-2012 | 01:30 PM
*********
Joined: Dec 2007
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The Morningstar flying is for the inter-Canada flying, which FedEx cannot do under current Canadian aviation rules. Same reason WestJet can serve ORD-SEA.
03-29-2012 | 01:35 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
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