Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-31-2012, 04:46 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,999
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
T-34s? Mooney's? Beech's? For your commercial? Or even private?
Now my Piper Arrow time seems, well, like bragging about my 1989 Ford Ranger with no A/C.
We should have a apcf l&g toy box.
Now my Piper Arrow time seems, well, like bragging about my 1989 Ford Ranger with no A/C.
We should have a apcf l&g toy box.
Next time we took the Company jet, which was expected, and raised fewer eyebrows.
Save the Company nearly $2,500 and still get complained about. That's just my luck.
03-31-2012, 05:00 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,999
While talking about the "Toy Box." I did a little work on this and the owner promised we'd take it around to air shows. It had a fascinating history. Originally registered to the CIA, then operated by the World's largest cocaine smuggler. We had photos of it in SE Asia with Air to Ground munitions, and photos of it full of cocaine, even pictures of folks on it mooning the DEA (back then they could not shoot it down, but they could run anything the DEA down to min fuel). I was planning a heck of a story board:
The previous owner who used it for drug running was this guy:
Drug Smuggler- Rik Luytjes
Not to glamorize that sort of thing. But the airplane was purpose built for shenanigans. 350 feet was plenty to get 3,000+ lbs of payload aloft and fly it at 200+ knots for over 1,000 miles. Used, illegally, it made Central America to Scranton PA, non stop. It was a very capable airplane, but had some quirks. Unfortunately the owner sold it ... would have been fun to load up ten friends & head down to the islands in.
As you can see, the main gear hang low in flight and have a lot of travel. When landing the wheels would physically be on the ground, but it would definitely still be flying. As sold to the CIA, there was no lock out for Beta on the prop. Getting it into reverse while still 3 feet in the air would result in the airplane trying to swap ends.
If I won the lottery, I would be making some phone calls to see if the current owner wants to sell. It is about the most useful, fun, relatively cheap to operate war-bird I know of.
Drug Smuggler- Rik Luytjes
Not to glamorize that sort of thing. But the airplane was purpose built for shenanigans. 350 feet was plenty to get 3,000+ lbs of payload aloft and fly it at 200+ knots for over 1,000 miles. Used, illegally, it made Central America to Scranton PA, non stop. It was a very capable airplane, but had some quirks. Unfortunately the owner sold it ... would have been fun to load up ten friends & head down to the islands in.
As you can see, the main gear hang low in flight and have a lot of travel. When landing the wheels would physically be on the ground, but it would definitely still be flying. As sold to the CIA, there was no lock out for Beta on the prop. Getting it into reverse while still 3 feet in the air would result in the airplane trying to swap ends.
If I won the lottery, I would be making some phone calls to see if the current owner wants to sell. It is about the most useful, fun, relatively cheap to operate war-bird I know of.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 03-31-2012 at 05:17 AM.
03-31-2012, 05:15 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Why do I find creating a purpose built drug running plane as amusing? 
I guess it's like the dukes of hazzard
Until you get shot down!
I guess it's like the dukes of hazzard
Until you get shot down!
03-31-2012, 05:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by padre2992
Flamer,
I don't believe that a 43% pay raise and 100% scope recapture is attainable in 5 years. By anyone, ALPA or otherwise. The APA wrote that opera and it ends with the fat lady singing the blues. If a lot of guys felt that way, even that wouldn't matter, because the NMB would never let one airline leapfrog every other airline on the planet by such a significant margin. It sounds tough in electronic format, but those desires and my mega million numbers of 19 25 41 43 46 and 19 are going to get the exact same jackpot.
Be reasonable. Consider that a 43% pay raise might be attainable in 10 years. Reverse engineer it by inflation and recognize that what is really being asked for is the Roger 11% up front. The folks that want that 43% actually agree with Roger and the expectation managers.
I don't believe that a 43% pay raise and 100% scope recapture is attainable in 5 years. By anyone, ALPA or otherwise. The APA wrote that opera and it ends with the fat lady singing the blues. If a lot of guys felt that way, even that wouldn't matter, because the NMB would never let one airline leapfrog every other airline on the planet by such a significant margin. It sounds tough in electronic format, but those desires and my mega million numbers of 19 25 41 43 46 and 19 are going to get the exact same jackpot.
Be reasonable. Consider that a 43% pay raise might be attainable in 10 years. Reverse engineer it by inflation and recognize that what is really being asked for is the Roger 11% up front. The folks that want that 43% actually agree with Roger and the expectation managers.
03-31-2012, 05:20 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,999
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Why do I find creating a purpose built drug running plane as amusing?
I guess it's like the dukes of hazzard
Until you get shot down!
I guess it's like the dukes of hazzard
Until you get shot down!
03-31-2012, 05:26 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by padre2992
Flamer,
I don't believe that a 43% pay raise and 100% scope recapture is attainable in 5 years. By anyone, ALPA or otherwise. The APA wrote that opera and it ends with the fat lady singing the blues. If a lot of guys felt that way, even that wouldn't matter, because the NMB would never let one airline leapfrog every other airline on the planet by such a significant margin.
I don't believe that a 43% pay raise and 100% scope recapture is attainable in 5 years. By anyone, ALPA or otherwise. The APA wrote that opera and it ends with the fat lady singing the blues. If a lot of guys felt that way, even that wouldn't matter, because the NMB would never let one airline leapfrog every other airline on the planet by such a significant margin.
I don't know what category you're in... but take a look at your W2 from last year and compare it to the W2 of a typical SWA pilot (over $230K for a Captain and over $140K for a First Officer). I'll bet if you're a narrowbody pilot who doesn't get a really large number of greenslips that it takes a heck of a lot more than 11% to reach that level.
03-31-2012, 05:28 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Sorry I didn't win the lottery, not buyin Delta, you guys will not be owned, acl sorry about the master and commander oh captain my captain stuff.
I was planning on one hell of a section 6 though! then resigning after the ta was sent to vote. I would need to sell my stock, wall st would not like what I had done.
I was planning on one hell of a section 6 though! then resigning after the ta was sent to vote. I would need to sell my stock, wall st would not like what I had done.
03-31-2012, 07:06 AM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I did my high performance checkout in a Beech Baron with a pair of 300 hp engines modded onto it. VROOM! 
Other than that, there's no way I can one up teaching in a Mooney, haha.
I did fly charters into ATL on a Turbo Saratoga quite a bit while I was in college, and subsequently taught other new pilots on the charter op on it. It was funny having to turn on the air conditioning to use as a speed brake to help slow down to make the landing gear speed of 132 knots.
My favorite story flying into and out of ATL on those charters was the tower controller calling me "heavy" on one occasion. I was behind a 767- with another 767 behind me- and he cleared me into position saying "Saratoga 32TE heavy, position and hold, caution wake turbulence preceding heavy 767. He cleared me for takeoff, and then cautioned the 767 behind me on "Preceding heavy piper Saratoga."
Other than that, there's no way I can one up teaching in a Mooney, haha.
I did fly charters into ATL on a Turbo Saratoga quite a bit while I was in college, and subsequently taught other new pilots on the charter op on it. It was funny having to turn on the air conditioning to use as a speed brake to help slow down to make the landing gear speed of 132 knots.
My favorite story flying into and out of ATL on those charters was the tower controller calling me "heavy" on one occasion. I was behind a 767- with another 767 behind me- and he cleared me into position saying "Saratoga 32TE heavy, position and hold, caution wake turbulence preceding heavy 767. He cleared me for takeoff, and then cautioned the 767 behind me on "Preceding heavy piper Saratoga."
the one i was in was a M-20S model, 244 hp, dual axis autopilot and upgraded cockpit. it was my favorite plane to go out and fly. new students to the plane could make for interesting days though lol, that thing would porpoise like crazy if you landed wrong. I watched a buddy of mines student porpoise so bad he bent the prop on with a prop strike, then took back off and flew around the pattern. bent an inch on the prop and put the plane down for a month....
Last edited by Superpilot92; 03-31-2012 at 07:33 AM.
03-31-2012, 07:28 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Recap, rumor is we've gotten a 717 deal with SWA in place, that the terms for Delta are highly highly favorable and DALPA is being asked for scope concessions to bring it on the line, right?
But since we're giving scope up on the bottom end we need to do it on the top end and with all the JV's it sure seems as if we are sharing those super premium widebodies.
In essence, DAL has secured 717s but to bring them to mainline is to make a concession to us so what will we concede in return?
Now, if this is true, what does that say?To me it says the demarcation line between DCI and mainline is not at the 76 seat limit where we think it is.
To me it says like the DC9-30 is no different than the 65 seat DC9-14 that preceded it decades ago. Once off the mainline property is never to come back unless its outsourced.
The 717 is a DC9-30 in size, so to bring it to mainline is to make a concession.
I guess whoever mentioned that they didn't want to see anything smaller than the MD-88 at mainline is getting their way minus the grandfathered fleet of 737-700s and A319s and outgoing DC9-50s:
So the mainline vs DCI demarcation line is probably 150 seats or less minus grandfathered equipment:To me it says like the DC9-30 is no different than the 65 seat DC9-14 that preceded it decades ago. Once off the mainline property is never to come back unless its outsourced.
The 717 is a DC9-30 in size, so to bring it to mainline is to make a concession.
I guess whoever mentioned that they didn't want to see anything smaller than the MD-88 at mainline is getting their way minus the grandfathered fleet of 737-700s and A319s and outgoing DC9-50s:
But since we're giving scope up on the bottom end we need to do it on the top end and with all the JV's it sure seems as if we are sharing those super premium widebodies.
Therefore, and to abuse this post to help foster a hatred of buckets , the first 150 seat bucket is to be outsourced. The next 150 seat bucket (151-300) is to be exclusively insourced, and the third bucket of 301 seats or more is to be shared with our friends.
That's what this concession for 717s rumors says to me.
fwiw, I'm not saying the 717 is to be outsourced. From the beginning of this rumor it has been clearly stated there would be a quest for a single category because the economic advantage of this aircraft required bringing it into the 88/90 fleet. However, if the EMB-195 became the EMB-200 that sat 117, do you think it would come here automatically like the 717? Evidently not, so to "give us" the 717 is seen as a concession if this rumor is true.
, the first 150 seat bucket is to be outsourced. The next 150 seat bucket (151-300) is to be exclusively insourced, and the third bucket of 301 seats or more is to be shared with our friends. That's what this concession for 717s rumors says to me.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 03-31-2012 at 07:44 AM.
03-31-2012, 07:31 AM
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
Teaching in this is always fun! Rare to find people that do not already have a round motor background, so it usually falls into the mode of JDDAS (just dont do anything stupid) Best twin trainer in the world IMHO. Clearly why the USAF hung onto them into the early 60's.
Granted not as sexy as a Mooney, I still can not afford to rent one of those!
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