Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-30-2012, 06:17 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
If nobody wins tonight, they say lotto may exceed $1B by Tuesday, I'd love to see those billboard signs handle that!
03-30-2012, 06:21 PM
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
From what I've heard, what was given to the negotiators to go after was pretty freaking high.
Then again, I heard recently someone say that we might see a TA soon with 12-5-5-5 pay increase. That is just insulting if that comes out as the TA. We'll see, and I'm not going to get my blood pressure up until there's something in stone.
Industry leading is what they are saying as their slogan, and I'm good with that if that is what comes back.
Then again, I heard recently someone say that we might see a TA soon with 12-5-5-5 pay increase. That is just insulting if that comes out as the TA. We'll see, and I'm not going to get my blood pressure up until there's something in stone.
Industry leading is what they are saying as their slogan, and I'm good with that if that is what comes back.
BL...I'll wait and see. If it sucks, I'll pull the DPA trigger while increasing efforts for employment elsewhere.
03-30-2012, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
There used to be a lot of Delta pilots with Bonanzas and Barons. Other than the retired folks, I only know one current Delta pilot (other than myself) who remains current in general aviation aircraft.
Had a group going to Sun and Fun, but our reason for going (an incidental business trip) fell through.
FTB: Are you a Mooney nut, or did you just like the great paint scheme on that one? I used to fly a M20C as a Company Car and loved it. Great airplane.
Had a group going to Sun and Fun, but our reason for going (an incidental business trip) fell through.
FTB: Are you a Mooney nut, or did you just like the great paint scheme on that one? I used to fly a M20C as a Company Car and loved it. Great airplane.
03-30-2012, 07:30 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
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[QUOTE=padre2992;1160482]Bucking Bar:
acl65:
You think 5, 5, 5, 5 will pass? I don't see that happening. Most guys I talk with are looking for double digits for the up front pay raise. That was the point of my previous posts regarding the comparison to SWA. As a minimum, shouldn't we get the Roger value of 11% (or close to it) up front?
5,5,5,5 - You are joking right? That is basically a stong COLA and not much more.
I would vote for Herman's 9-9-9 plan as long as Scope remained the same or improved. 9% pay raise day 1, 9 hours credit per vacation/training day, 9 hour daily credit.
What - I guy can dream can't he?
Scoop
acl65:
You think 5, 5, 5, 5 will pass? I don't see that happening. Most guys I talk with are looking for double digits for the up front pay raise. That was the point of my previous posts regarding the comparison to SWA. As a minimum, shouldn't we get the Roger value of 11% (or close to it) up front?
5,5,5,5 - You are joking right? That is basically a stong COLA and not much more.
I would vote for Herman's 9-9-9 plan as long as Scope remained the same or improved. 9% pay raise day 1, 9 hours credit per vacation/training day, 9 hour daily credit.
What - I guy can dream can't he?
Scoop
03-30-2012, 07:34 PM
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Posts: 6,873
Awesome Aviaiton Scene!
On a totally unrelated subject - check this out. From Catch 22. Make sure you have the volume up.
Catch-22 (Spectacular Shot) - YouTube
Scoop
Catch-22 (Spectacular Shot) - YouTube
Scoop
03-30-2012, 07:50 PM
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Position: "Prof" button manipulator
Posts: 1,685
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Originally Posted by johnso29
Did my commercial SE in a Mooney M20J. What a joy to fly! Chandelles and lazy eights were a blast!
Greatest single engine airplane ever made!
Solid flight controls (push-pull tubes), speed of a light twin (even faster if you have the missile conversion on the M20), and roomy cabin.GJ
03-30-2012, 07:52 PM
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by Flamer
Industry leading would have to be 43-3-3-3, plus work rule improvements and 100% scope recapture. I know we are not going to see that. The touch and goes I just got was another perfect example of managing expectations. Sad.
BL...I'll wait and see. If it sucks, I'll pull the DPA trigger while increasing efforts for employment elsewhere.
BL...I'll wait and see. If it sucks, I'll pull the DPA trigger while increasing efforts for employment elsewhere.
Flamer,
I don't believe that a 43% pay raise and 100% scope recapture is attainable in 5 years. By anyone, ALPA or otherwise. The APA wrote that opera and it ends with the fat lady singing the blues. If a lot of guys felt that way, even that wouldn't matter, because the NMB would never let one airline leapfrog every other airline on the planet by such a significant margin. It sounds tough in electronic format, but those desires and my mega million numbers of 19 25 41 43 46 and 19 are going to get the exact same jackpot.
Be reasonable. Consider that a 43% pay raise might be attainable in 10 years. Reverse engineer it by inflation and recognize that what is really being asked for is the Roger 11% up front. The folks that want that 43% actually agree with Roger and the expectation managers.
Last edited by padre2992; 03-30-2012 at 08:06 PM.
03-30-2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by shiznit
Is all of Section 1 part of your math when considering the gain or loss in scope?
Currently DAL has unlimited off-list:
50 and below jets
70 and below turboprops
JV flying (except with Skyteam transatlantic)
Alaska Codeshare and other international codeshare
AND 255 off-list 51-76 jets.
Would would you agree or disagree that it would be a gain or loss in scope if:
Capped and PERMANENTLY reduced (over a set timeframe) all 50 seat jets and no renewal permitted off-list
0 off-list future turborprop flying
ALL JV flying required to be 50% DAL pilot EASK's/block hours/whatever metric), lookback average returned to 1 year instead of 3, with monthly financial penalties paid to the Delta Pilots when out of compliance.
ALL codehares have time limits or cutoff points if the codeshare is a revenue deal
Alaska codeshare is limited/reduced over time/ sunsetted completely.
DAL can operate 1 more 51-76 seat RJ's off-list for every 2.5 50 seat jets that are removed from service, up to a limit of X airframes (say 50-100)?
Is it a gain or loss....
***DISCLAIMER***The above is NOT anyone's scope proposal(mine, company, or union), just a hypothetical question.
Gotta go, I'll be interested to see what guys think later.
Currently DAL has unlimited off-list:
50 and below jets
70 and below turboprops
JV flying (except with Skyteam transatlantic)
Alaska Codeshare and other international codeshare
AND 255 off-list 51-76 jets.
Would would you agree or disagree that it would be a gain or loss in scope if:
Capped and PERMANENTLY reduced (over a set timeframe) all 50 seat jets and no renewal permitted off-list
0 off-list future turborprop flying
ALL JV flying required to be 50% DAL pilot EASK's/block hours/whatever metric), lookback average returned to 1 year instead of 3, with monthly financial penalties paid to the Delta Pilots when out of compliance.
ALL codehares have time limits or cutoff points if the codeshare is a revenue deal
Alaska codeshare is limited/reduced over time/ sunsetted completely.
DAL can operate 1 more 51-76 seat RJ's off-list for every 2.5 50 seat jets that are removed from service, up to a limit of X airframes (say 50-100)?
Is it a gain or loss....
***DISCLAIMER***The above is NOT anyone's scope proposal(mine, company, or union), just a hypothetical question.
Gotta go, I'll be interested to see what guys think later.
Shiznit, it's a matter of perspective...
Let's see:
- 70-76 seaters were scope concessions of the past
- The 153 number was based off a poor settlement
- Delta could have unlimited Q400s right now but doesn't
- Delta doesn't want the 50 seater anymore (said sleepy ED)
- We had a 1 year compliance window and it was given away by TO with LOA14
- Alaska codeshare was quietly added to the Joint contract in 2008 (supposedly "good for us")
Delta is trying to extricate itself from the 50-seaters. So Ed is talking about a "creative solution" working with DCI and the aircraft OEMs to make that happen.
Let's not forget that Delta grew the now problematic RJ fleet while Delta pilots were furloughed.
DCI had explosive growth. It's nothing short of unbelievable that Delta would have the audacity to ask Delta pilots to loosen scope now to get out of a self created mess that–to top it off–was detrimental to Delta pilots.
Back to the very detailed "proposal"
The positives I see, should be items added as part of Section 6.
All JVs should have production balance regardless of financial arrangements.
Given the history on scope we shouldn't have to give up anything to see gains, it's already an admittedly concessionary Section 1.
Trading scope for scope is like shifting money from savings to checking and marveling at the new checking account balance.
Scope needs to improve without any givebacks in other scope.
The Delta pilots more than held up their part of the deal and helped the company to get to where we are today. Delta pilots are the key to Deltas operation, quite often the grease that makes the operation work in spite of the warts and flaws. It's time the company honored that commitment and professionalism by making a commitment to having Delta pilots fly Delta aircraft. Let's remember, Delta can have unlimited 76 seat jets right now with Delta pilots at the controls...
Cheers
George
03-30-2012, 08:22 PM
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Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by buzzpat
And reserve guarantee is ALV or 78 hours plus....
That might pass just barely.
That might pass just barely.
03-30-2012, 08:25 PM
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Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by johnso29
Did my commercial SE in a Mooney M20J. What a joy to fly! Chandelles and lazy eights were a blast!
There is a B model that shares a hangar with our A-36.
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