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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1905585)
As I posted 10% is a huge exaggeration of pilots doing OE. We only carry 10% LCA's. They have to do line checks, theatre quals, special flts as well as OE. They are also given trips with no LCA duties.
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Originally Posted by Moondog
(Post 1905548)
What is the FB page? I don't log in to FB much because I find most of the stuff there inane drivel.
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1905542)
I called the 330 office to get the numbers. There are 37 total check airman in the category and the training department throughput is 24 pilots a month. Pilots need 4 or 6 legs of IOE to be qualed depending on background. The average leg is 8 hours.
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Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1905610)
You're right, this place is soooooo much better. :D
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Originally Posted by Moondog
(Post 1905614)
I was talking about the daily life crap that people insist on posting on FB, at least all of the TA2015 purveyors sales pitches in here make me laugh at them.:)
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Originally Posted by notEnuf
(Post 1905560)
My experience has been LCAs are generally in the top half of a category. The trips they bid are productive and great commuter trips if they commute. Several do so they can have seniority in a category. If you pull these trips you are pulling the better trips from the bid. The wash-down affect for every FO below the most senior LCA in your category is huge and is exponential for the bottom line holder FO.
I have young kids and finally hold weekends off and can get other days off as needed, birthdays, game days, etc. I had to give up coaching for work when 5 days hit the 88/90 and I plan to not upgrade until I can have some control over my schedule as a captain. I could be a NYC captain now. So could most of the pre2009 hires. There is a reason that captain position goes so junior. QOL. The key for me is QOL. I am voting NO on QOL alone. 8/0/3/3 is not enough for me to waste my time reading another section. (but I have) This "TA" is not worthy of a MEMRAT vote but now thanks to a rushed MEC and pilots with $$ about rates, rates, rates in their eyes my family will probably suffer. Make my life better not worse that's your job. Less TLV, NO pulled trips, better reserve window constraints would be a start. Not the opposite. But thanks for the 5 cent perdiem bump and doubling ground transportation allowance, which I think I got once so far. This is a cruel joke and even a crueler reality if this passes. Nice job. Now I'll have to volunteer for ALPA so I can stay home and coach again. Now I see the plan, this is nothing but a recruiting tool. The real TA is upcoming right? |
Junglebus wrote this on another thread. As a background, I'm a fence sitter looking for facts and civil conversation.
Hey Oberon, I thought for sure I had your phone number and was going to give you a call. Guess I don't, so we can do this here. You're a good guy if a bit trusting of ALPA - but then again, so was I a week ago. Here we go... 1. Using EASKs for the production of balance at least guaranteed that roughly 50% of JV passengers went across the pond on Delta metal. As I'm sure you're well aware, that language most recently had 1.5% wiggle room with a 3-year lookback and a 1-year cure, and Delta was never in compliance that entire time (I believe they ended with ~47.5% of the EASKs). Because we operate smaller-gauge equipment than AF/KLM, 50% EASKs amounted to something like 54% of the block hours and even Delta's non-compliant state left us with 51% of the block hours. Now we go to 50% which puts Delta back in compliance with another 1% of wiggle room. Going down to the minimum would take us down to about 46% of the JV passenger traveling on Delta metal - for now. Delta could further downgauge and it would have no effect on block hour ratio; Air France could add an A380 CDG-JFK and Delta could just add a 737-900ER BOS-AMS and it would all be perfectly compliant. Currently, Delta downgauging means they'd have to add more flights to make up for it (or AF/KL/AZ has to draw down capacity); and Air France adding an A380 means we add 2 A330s :) or 3 757s :eek:. Some ALPA-friendly posters here have claimed block hours have more downside protection, using the example that if AF parks a A380, we have to park 2 A330s - but there's nothing in the language that actually requires that, and in any case DL has never been anywhere close to the 50% so it's a moot point. 2. Someone took the ATL 88 wide report from a couple months ago and cross-referenced it to the LCAs. It's improbable that every LCA was giving OE on every trip, but we know they've been busy in that category, and we know they'll stay as busy or busier going forward. It amounted to something like 10.7% of the trips removed....and 90% of the LCA lines had weekends off! Obviously that won't be true in every category, but it's clearly a pretty major concession for junior FOs that take the seniority hit, senior FOs that lose out on GS opportunities, and junior CAs that suddenly find themselves sliding backwards as senior FOs upgrade to make up the lost money! 3. The company needed a few things, which was the only reason we opened early. I believe they will still need those things, and more urgently going forward, but will be unwilling to come back to the table immediately lest we demonstrate the benefits of unionism to the other employees. So we'll forego our 8% raise on 7/1, forego the 6% raise in 2016 but also keep about that much profit sharing we would have given up, keep LCA trips, keep current sick leave, keep current JV balance (and keep grieving it if the company continues to be out of compliance), etc. Eventually the company will come back and up the ante or make the concessions a bit less onerous (there were frankly far better ways to address their issues - we gave them a sledgehammer for issues that required a tackhammer). I don't think they'll park us in negotiations hell the entire time - but if they do, we're not in that bad of a spot to wait, while they kinda are. The LCA drop issue has perplexed me. The accepted number seems to be "75% of LCA rotations" could be used for OE. That seems high to me. At my last company, 4% of FO trips could be withheld from bidding. They frequently used very close to the full amount. It should be noted that that isn't 4% of trip hours but 4% of trips. In a category with a lot of one day trips which they used four and five day trips for OE it could be much more than 4% of trip hours. In a category with mostly four and five day trips this would work out to about 4% or slightly more trip hours. Anecdotally, about half of my trips were withheld for OE. What does this mean? Not much. It's a point of reference, which is why I asked about the LCA drop issue in the first place. Anyway... While reading Junglebus's reply it occurred to me that we now have access to the contractual language. Below is on page 181 of the TA. 23.D.7 The Company will designate rotations that have been awarded to Line Check Pilots that contain the projected OE/TOE block hours for the pilots expected to complete simulator training in the bid period. Following the award of rotations to First Officers that contain at least 25% of the projected OE/TOE block hours for the pilots expected to complete simulator training in the bid period, the Company may withhold from awarding to First Officers the remainder of such designated rotations. The projection of OE/TOE block hours for the pilots expected to complete simulator training in the bid period will be calculated as follows: a. 15 block hours for each transitioning narrowbody Captain or First Officer b. 25 block hours for each first time narrowbody Captain c. 40 block hours for each new hire in a narrowbody category d. 50 block hours for each transitioning First Officer from a narrowbody category to a widebody category e. 60 block hours for each first time Captain transitioning from a narrowbody category to a widebody category f. 75 block hours for each new hire in widebody category I had to read this section many times but I think I've deciphered how it's supposed to work. 1. The company calculates how much OE is needed based on how many people finished simulator training. 2. After captains award they assign the required time to the LCA. 3. During the FO award LCA trips are assigned as usual until 25% of the projected time has been reached at which point the rest of the LCA trips are pulled. For instance if, in the DTW 7ER category, six new hires and three new captains are projected to finish simulator training in a particular month, 630 block hours (75*6+60*3=630) would be designated for IOE. Once at least 157.5 LCA block hours (630*0.25=157.5) are assigned to FOs the remainder, approximately 472.5 hours, are pulled. If you assume a regular line pilot will fly 75 block hours that is about 6.3 pilots worth of withheld time. I have no clue how many DTW 7ER pilots finish simulator training each month. To see the real effect of the new rule you'd have to know how many pilots go through training each month/year. If someone has some real numbers I'd be happy to run the numbers. It should also be noted that not all categories are affected equally. Wide-body categories are affected more than narrow-body categories and new hire categories are affected more than non-new hire categories. To me this rule points directly at the NYC 7ER FO category. I don't pay too close attention to what's going on there but based on the open time in the DTW 7ER FO category I'd say there is probably a GS bonanza in NY. I'd really like to run some accurate numbers but based on the language I'd say "75% of LCA trips" is a gross exaggeration though the real effect is quite significant. This is a big change to the contract, what'd we get for it? |
Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble
(Post 1905486)
They should identify these 1800 pilots and give them all a month off without pay. July is good month. I wonder if I short notice call in sick for my next two trips, is there time to be added to list?
Right. And you would be OK with ALPA not grieving that? :rolleyes: Therein lies the problem with that "idea". |
Originally Posted by crj130driver
(Post 1905541)
So would it be accurate to say that if I vote no I am gong to "give up" an 8% pay raise and 10 hours of pay with regard to vacation and training until a new contract is signed? This for me doesn't seem like id be giving up much at all to wait for a better deal. The productivity "concessions" alone seem to negate these very small gains. Am I on the right track here or did I miss something?
The question in my mind is, why are we agreeing to what is essentially a contract reset, and accepting Bankruptcy era concessions, when this industry has fundamentally changed for the better, and is now earning Billions? :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1905481)
The clowns on the 4th floor think that anyone who uses more than 20 hours of sick leave per year is an "Abuser".
You have to remember that the clowns on the 4th floor can all come to work when they have a head cold or a sprained ankle. Pilots, not so much. :rolleyes: Oh, the 4th floor guys also get to sleep in their own beds every night, get all weekends and holidays off too. Pilots didn't even get "Holiday Pay" in this POS TA. |
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