atpwannabe

Ok. I think I follow the logic now. Even if they merged the lists, the equipment determines where a pilot would actually fall on the "completed" seniority list and if that were the case, then the aforementioned. Correct?


atp

Tropical

You're right. A merger scenario is too risky to the Delta pilots. Way too likely to go sideways because of seniors at 9E who turned down flow and will certainly sue in a seniority grab.

In fact, the best way to handle this would be to simply flow all the 9E pilots to DL in seniority order and fly the jets at mainline. You could even have fences for a few years and keep your seat. "It's not a staple, it's a flow". McCaskill/Bond approved. Anyone who refuses can resign.

Or liquidate 9E, consolidate the jets (owned by Delta) at SkyWest, and let everyone go through the normal hiring processes at YX, OO, and DL. Preferential hiring. Like when Comair was liquidated. With the job market right now nobody will be out of a job very long. You could probably go to SkyWest as a street CA and fly the same jet. Of course, you'd have to start over in pay and benefits, but that favors Delta too. Keeps costs low. Certainly much less messy for Delta and DALPA this way. The CRJ 900 is getting pretty long in the tooth anyhow. Probably won't be around too much longer. Let SkyWest fly them for a few more years until they're parked... really no point in the time and expense of adding them to the Delta certificate.

Or you could just take the staple (if offered) and be glad you won the lottery for your last few years.

Mark my words, as soon as a lawsuit gets filed, DALPA walks away and Delta liquidates 9E. No 9E pilot will ever enter the Delta seniority list above a current Delta pilot. Ever. Neither Delta nor DALPA want that, and they hold all the marbles.

Jdub2

This is the truth

TransWorld

I think about it this way.

If an Endeavor 10 year CA hired on with Delta, they would be a FO, junior to any FO currently on the seniority list.

If they waited a little bit, and a merger took place, why would that put that Endeavor 10 year CA at a higher seniority than any FO currently on the seniority list?

I would not think so.*

*There might be an offset for “Lifer” CA, giving them some seniority on the list. How much seniority and who would be described as a lifer would be open for discussion. A 25 to 35 year CA or a CA in management, yes. A 5 to 10 year, no.

Lifers at most regionals are less than 10% of their pilots.

I am reminded the merger of TWA into AA resulted in about a 10 year downshift in seniority for CA and a pure staple and immediate layoff of all FA. It resulted in the McCaskill-Bond statute for Seniority Integration. This applies to merger of Major to Major. It has never been tried for merger of a Regional into a Major. I doubt it would apply (as I understand it.)

Kingairguy200

For everyone here trying to figure out how the seniority would work for a merger, staple or whatever you want to call it….

In the union email, they specifically say “no endeavor pilot would be more senior to any pilot on the delta seniority list”.

The unions are pushing for the 9E pilots to be attached right at the bottom.

Tropical

Well here's the thing. ALPA merger policy accounts for aircraft, seat, and career expectations. With a merger of two legacy airlines that are in the same ballpark, sure an integration is feasible. Merging a regional with a legacy, they aren't even close. A staple with fences would probably satisfy those requirements. McCaskill/Bond, as you said, probably wouldn't even apply. The problem is that the lifers will sue and attempt to grab seniority like the Comair lifers did since none of this has been tested in court. That could drag it out for years making it worthless to Delta and making 9E much more likely to just be liquidated like Comair.

Delta is better off just to flow the jets and pilots under the current agreement. Way less messy. Those who refuse to flow are furloughed when the last jet leaves.

The problem is that lifers like overqualified52 and Lizzy Borden are unlikely to accept that, and will almost certainly attempt a lawsuit, dooming all of you.

Kingairguy200

I see. Probably the same group claiming they deserve a second chance at flow.

Excargodog

A. Delta has no problem getting apps from guys willing to start at year one pay. Why on earth would they want to give longevity credit to 1000 guys at a regional? It would literally cost them billions over the course of those persons careers.
B. Giving ANY seniority credit to regional pilots would largely put Delta at a disadvantage hiring ex/retired military, who are the people Delta really likes to hire.

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking in this thread that ain’t ever gonna happen

Tropical

Delta hasn't been that way for over a decade. Civilians have been the majority of newhires for a long time. Don't perpetuate negative stereotypes that you know nothing about, especially since you don't actually work at Delta.

That said, all of the legacies are reaching the bottom of the barrel in recruiting. There are advantages to bringing the 9E pilots over now and preventing other airlines from snagging them. But if certain people in the 9E group make that cost too high, yeah, Delta will walk away and let the problem solve itself.

LizzyBorden

Hey, still curious.....when did I start working for 9E, and how exactly would I go about attempting a lawsuit?