Five93H

There's what, a dozen more planes coming this year alone? Upgrades aren't done yet.

AnotherWriter

Wai, what? I've got basically 11 months seniority, hold 18 days off with the days I want. We still have to send 200 to Delta this year, and we will probably lose another 100 to other stuff, so that's at least 300 positions you'll move up in the next 9-10 months...

The threshold for upgrade hasn't changed. ATL didnt go junior on the CA side, sure, but also there are people with company time holding CA with 1600 series seniority numbers. No one knows what DGI is going to look like, but that's another sure outflow of pilots even if only 60% of people who interview get it.

The seniority required to hold CA in NYC hasn't changed on this vacancy and isn't going to change in the near future. The attrition here isn't going to stop and people are still joining the airline and I think probably will continue to do so now that it seems like DTW and MSP are moving again. 17-01 was good.

Anyone running around shouting you're better off at Envoy is both wrong, and self harming. Everything will continue to be good for all in involved here if we can keep hiring.

Make the argument Envoy's upgrade time is dropping. Ok - so did ours at one point because we didn't hire anyone for nearly four (?) years. Their upgrade time might be two years for someone hired recently, but once someone sends up the smoke signal people start going there the seniority starts getting much tighter with respect to DOH. And the upgrade time will go back up. That is currently happening here.

You can't chase the quick upgrade, you've got to be on the front wave of it... which is to say predict it before it happens and make that risk. Anyone leaving here would be insane right now since we have a bright future and very likely a stabilizing upgrade time of 24 months. With good money and acceptable work rules.

Slaveaway

Most with the 1600 numbers are return to work.

jules11

I wouldn't exactly call 800 hours with the company a long time to upgrade...
It's still a faster upgrade than most others can say they have/had

AnotherWriter

Upgrades still go in seniority order. If there were people who were qualified or wanted the CA slots senior to them, then they wouldn't get the upgrade. It basically shows we don't even have an upgrade time, just a company hour upgrade requirement. Let it sink in how insane that feels.

SmitteyB

Return to work is a tricky phrase.

Reserve that for folks who are on leave.

The 1600#s are folks who left and have come back to the company.

It's basically a street captain if you consider they will be on reserve for a long while.

The bigger issue and Avroman and many have discussed it at length is we have serious stagnation at the top of the list. The type of upgrade opportunities that exist here will be reserve and possibly a line working weekends. Anyone who upgrades at 9E will not see weekends off or a good QOL as a line holder. It just won't happen. Retention bonuses are prohibiting it. Flow is the only thing that would fix this and that's not happening anytime soon...

At least without serious growth.

prex8390

It's definitely not and for a new hire, that's a pretty enticing prospect. But for guys that bet their QOL on it and lost like myself and a lot of AWACs, it's just disappointing.

Space Ranger

Can someone explain to a new-hire in lamen terms what just happened with 17-01. Looks like to me there was quite a bit of movement across the board going down to ATL?

Is LGA 200 still most junior for FOs between JFK/LGA?
Have they stopped growing JFK entirely?
With all the shifting of folks from NYC to ATL, is it at all probable that reserve times in both NYC bases could diminish further? Not sure what JFK is but I think LGA is somewhere around 1.5-2 months before this initial award.

Slaveaway

I'll ask this. How drastic would the paycheck be between a reserve captain vs a senior FO in LGA with 18 days off and the ability to pick up trips at 150-200%?

greenroute

Probably pretty drastic, as a "very senior" FO in LGA is probably still on the $30 an hour first year pay. 18 days off? Some people are living in fantasy land.