Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
11-30-2016, 08:02 PM
#8761
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Originally Posted by gloopy
There is no need to reduce feed. Mainline pilots can feed the mainline by flying whatever airplane fits that role. We already have large RJ pay rates on the books, and those rates could be tweaked upwards if needed to address recruitment.
Lose money to avoid a flow? Where's your MBA from?
11-30-2016, 08:40 PM
#8762
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Originally Posted by gojo
I think if I was just starting I'd go to one with a flow. Although I'd probably try make something happen earlier with one of the of the majors. But it would be nice to have a flow in my back pocket if needed
11-30-2016, 08:41 PM
#8763
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Originally Posted by gloopy
Then by that logic, AA is locked in and guaranteed to absolutely dominate the airline industry, to the possible extent of liquidating their competitors because they have mastered the flow while others have thrown away the keys to the kingdom by not embracing it.
I'm really not seeing that TBH.
Grand impugnors? What in the world are you talking about?
In any case, you think DL should adopt a flow. And if they don't, they might go out of business because they will not be able to staff flights (only AA and maybe JB? will survive the coming flowpocalypse apparently). Fine. But even if they go that route (and they've said recently that they absolutely will not) it would really just be for future new hires. And why wouldn't it be, if the main reason for doing it was to recruit where all other means have failed?
There is no way they'd address a recruitment crisis (even if a flow decision was the fulcrum for that anyway, which I disagree with) by giving seniority list order, starting from the top, including once or multiple turned down pilots guaranteed seniority numbers. In fact, it would be even more beneficial to recruitment if future "golden child" new hires got to skip over pilots already there.
You wouldn't want that, would you?
I'm really not seeing that TBH.
Grand impugnors? What in the world are you talking about?
In any case, you think DL should adopt a flow. And if they don't, they might go out of business because they will not be able to staff flights (only AA and maybe JB? will survive the coming flowpocalypse apparently). Fine. But even if they go that route (and they've said recently that they absolutely will not) it would really just be for future new hires. And why wouldn't it be, if the main reason for doing it was to recruit where all other means have failed?
There is no way they'd address a recruitment crisis (even if a flow decision was the fulcrum for that anyway, which I disagree with) by giving seniority list order, starting from the top, including once or multiple turned down pilots guaranteed seniority numbers. In fact, it would be even more beneficial to recruitment if future "golden child" new hires got to skip over pilots already there.
You wouldn't want that, would you?
11-30-2016, 08:44 PM
#8764
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Originally Posted by gloopy
There is no need to reduce feed. Mainline pilots can feed the mainline by flying whatever airplane fits that role. We already have large RJ pay rates on the books, and those rates could be tweaked upwards if needed to address recruitment.
11-30-2016, 09:25 PM
#8765
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Posts: 471
Originally Posted by gloopy
I don't really know what you're asking here. Are you trying to say that because some buyouts result in mergers due to types of equipment operated, then either all regional WO's should get full seniority at a mainline, NWA pilots should have had to interview for a job, or else there is mass hypocrisy? That makes no sense but it appears its the path you're trying to go down.
Not asking anything except equality. In the current ALPA system only mainline jobs matter and I know all the reasons why. But the current system allows management to have a playground at the regional level that would not be allowed at the mainlines. This is wrong and regionals don't have the power base to stop it like you have at a mainline. My feeling is my job is equally important as a mainlines BUT NEVER AT A MAINLINE PILOTS EXPENSE, POSITION OR JOB!
Under this current system you have protection that I am not afforded but until a regional pilot can move up to a mainline job it is still as important to a regional pilot as it is to a mainline. If GOD forbid there is another 9/11 terrorists attack or for whatever there is a reason for a downturn in the industry DAL can dissolve Endeavor and may never have a job to return to. A mainline may get furloughed but can return to your job once it becomes available again. Your job can not be given away ours can even though we are owned by the same company and under the same UNION.
12-01-2016, 01:16 AM
#8766
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Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 465
What is the difference between the ETD program and a flow? Nothing. Delta already tried the new hire regional up through DL flow and it failed due to unrealistic hiring standards. DL wants control of the whole process and if that's what it takes to get a flow out of Delta then a flow isn't what we want or need.
Last edited by Gearswinger; 12-01-2016 at 01:32 AM.
12-01-2016, 03:17 AM
#8767
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Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by Nantonaku
A large percentage of Endeavor pilots were part of a flow. It didn't work out for most people (why it wasn't honored I have no idea). In today's environment I don't see any reason to place any importance on a carrier with a flow. Why would you want to wait 8 years to flow to American? Any flow to Delta would probably be on a similar timeline, to me it seems like hanging your hat on a flow is giving up years of seniority. A great deal for American if they can get pilots to fly for their sub-par regional carriers for an extra 4 years only to reset their wages back to year 1 after 8 years.
12-01-2016, 04:54 AM
#8768
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Originally Posted by Nantonaku
A large percentage of Endeavor pilots were part of a flow. It didn't work out for most people (why it wasn't honored I have no idea). In today's environment I don't see any reason to place any importance on a carrier with a flow. Why would you want to wait 8 years to flow to American? Any flow to Delta would probably be on a similar timeline, to me it seems like hanging your hat on a flow is giving up years of seniority. A great deal for American if they can get pilots to fly for their sub-par regional carriers for an extra 4 years only to reset their wages back to year 1 after 8 years.
12-01-2016, 05:13 AM
#8769
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Originally Posted by Kforekyle
If you flow an average of 25 pilots per month, it would take 4 years to DL. at the current numbers. That would be a very good recruiting tool if you ask me.
Might be an interesting thread to watch regarding flow ups to American. The original poster seems to imply they're a positive addition to the airline.
12-01-2016, 08:46 AM
#8770
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Originally Posted by msprj2
Exactly. You wont be able to compete. Mainline pay vs regional pay.
Lose money to avoid a flow? Where's your MBA from?
Lose money to avoid a flow? Where's your MBA from?
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