2 month flow hiatus
08-23-2017 | 07:56 PM
#21
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The recruitment department isn't saying 5.5 years. That was the old number with the 2.5 year upgrade announcement. Recruitment has increased the flow projection with the increased hiring every month.
I like how everyone called the recruiters disingenuous and liars when they announced 2.5 year upgrades. Now it's soon to be less than a year and you now attack the flow projection.
The recruitment department does not sell the flow like you say. They do not say it is a guarantee. They tell the potential new hires that if AA stops hiring than the flow stops.
Get your facts straight before defaming an entire department.
I like how everyone called the recruiters disingenuous and liars when they announced 2.5 year upgrades. Now it's soon to be less than a year and you now attack the flow projection.
The recruitment department does not sell the flow like you say. They do not say it is a guarantee. They tell the potential new hires that if AA stops hiring than the flow stops.
Get your facts straight before defaming an entire department.
The upgrade time is vastly shorter than anyone thought it would be. I 100% give the company credit on that front.
08-23-2017 | 09:01 PM
#22
Banned
Joined: Jan 2016
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What are they calling the flow time? Because the last flow time projection I saw was from a recruiter over on Talk Airline in the last two weeks, calling it 5.5 years. Maybe the company needs to get ahold of these recruiters and reign them in a little bit.
The upgrade time is vastly shorter than anyone thought it would be. I 100% give the company credit on that front.
The upgrade time is vastly shorter than anyone thought it would be. I 100% give the company credit on that front.
I shouldn't have to point this out but I will anyway. I seriously doubt any actual recruiter posts on any message board. You guys go bananas anytime someone posts anything positive, and that person is immediately labeled as a "recruiter" when in reality they most likely are not.
Which, you know...whatever. But it becomes a problem when we witness your multiple posts in this thread. You are defaming and slandering an entire department of hardworking people ( co-workers of yours, no less ) based on false information others push forward on message boards. A group of knuckleheads start calling anonymous online posters "recruiters" and the rest of you believe they are, in actuality recruiters. That's bad, man. Get a grip on reality.
08-23-2017 | 09:16 PM
#23
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Joined: Jul 2016
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From: FO
Oh, talkairline..so it must be true. If Eagle Lounge is the internet's Fox News talkairline is Breitbart.
I shouldn't have to point this out but I will anyway. I seriously doubt any actual recruiter posts on any message board. You guys go bananas anytime someone posts anything positive, and that person is immediately labeled as a "recruiter" when in reality they most likely are not.
Which, you know...whatever. But it becomes a problem when we witness your multiple posts in this thread. You are defaming and slandering an entire department of hardworking people ( co-workers of yours, no less ) based on false information others push forward on message boards. A group of knuckleheads start calling anonymous online posters "recruiters" and the rest of you believe they are, in actuality recruiters. That's bad, man. Get a grip on reality.
I shouldn't have to point this out but I will anyway. I seriously doubt any actual recruiter posts on any message board. You guys go bananas anytime someone posts anything positive, and that person is immediately labeled as a "recruiter" when in reality they most likely are not.
Which, you know...whatever. But it becomes a problem when we witness your multiple posts in this thread. You are defaming and slandering an entire department of hardworking people ( co-workers of yours, no less ) based on false information others push forward on message boards. A group of knuckleheads start calling anonymous online posters "recruiters" and the rest of you believe they are, in actuality recruiters. That's bad, man. Get a grip on reality.
You must be a recruiter... it's clear as day. Your a company stooge... Yerrr ah Intern at the least!
08-23-2017 | 09:52 PM
#24
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 674
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Oh, talkairline..so it must be true. If Eagle Lounge is the internet's Fox News talkairline is Breitbart.
I shouldn't have to point this out but I will anyway. I seriously doubt any actual recruiter posts on any message board. You guys go bananas anytime someone posts anything positive, and that person is immediately labeled as a "recruiter" when in reality they most likely are not.
Which, you know...whatever. But it becomes a problem when we witness your multiple posts in this thread. You are defaming and slandering an entire department of hardworking people ( co-workers of yours, no less ) based on false information others push forward on message boards. A group of knuckleheads start calling anonymous online posters "recruiters" and the rest of you believe they are, in actuality recruiters. That's bad, man. Get a grip on reality.
I shouldn't have to point this out but I will anyway. I seriously doubt any actual recruiter posts on any message board. You guys go bananas anytime someone posts anything positive, and that person is immediately labeled as a "recruiter" when in reality they most likely are not.
Which, you know...whatever. But it becomes a problem when we witness your multiple posts in this thread. You are defaming and slandering an entire department of hardworking people ( co-workers of yours, no less ) based on false information others push forward on message boards. A group of knuckleheads start calling anonymous online posters "recruiters" and the rest of you believe they are, in actuality recruiters. That's bad, man. Get a grip on reality.
The recruiting department does a great job, evidenced by the class sizes that have never before been seen here at ENY. I don't want to take that department down and I retract my statements saying recruiters were planting inaccurate information, I'm happy to eat crow on that - who knows who the jokers are on these boards.
There are plenty of good things happening at Envoy, including unprecedented movement - I would say anyone at this airline a year ago would have staged an intervention for someone saying there would be a four month upgrade award. But here we are, and I only want good things to keep happening here.
I will point to ORDinary's post, however, and say that his facts are completely correct - those flow numbers were claimed in numerous company communications. This is what I should have directed my posts towards, and not blamed the posters on APC or TA - 300+ in 2016, and 330+ in 2017. We know the 2016 number did not happen, and it appears that 2017 will fall well short, as well. We all have a vested interest in the flow trucking along as fast as it can, and even a month delay will end up costing one tens of thousands of dollars.
08-23-2017 | 10:37 PM
#25
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,530
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Thank you for the well thought out response. No sarcasm. The same characters over there used to be on this board but got banned. Also, posters on the complete opposite end of the spectrum were banned, as well. So I guess there are a lot of former Fox News and MSNBC posters over at TA.
The recruiting department does a great job, evidenced by the class sizes that have never before been seen here at ENY. I don't want to take that department down and I retract my statements saying recruiters were planting inaccurate information, I'm happy to eat crow on that - who knows who the jokers are on these boards.
There are plenty of good things happening at Envoy, including unprecedented movement - I would say anyone at this airline a year ago would have staged an intervention for someone saying there would be a four month upgrade award. But here we are, and I only want good things to keep happening here.
I will point to ORDinary's post, however, and say that his facts are completely correct - those flow numbers were claimed in numerous company communications. This is what I should have directed my posts towards, and not blamed the posters on APC or TA - 300+ in 2016, and 330+ in 2017. We know the 2016 number did not happen, and it appears that 2017 will fall well short, as well. We all have a vested interest in the flow trucking along as fast as it can, and even a month delay will end up costing one tens of thousands of dollars.
The recruiting department does a great job, evidenced by the class sizes that have never before been seen here at ENY. I don't want to take that department down and I retract my statements saying recruiters were planting inaccurate information, I'm happy to eat crow on that - who knows who the jokers are on these boards.
There are plenty of good things happening at Envoy, including unprecedented movement - I would say anyone at this airline a year ago would have staged an intervention for someone saying there would be a four month upgrade award. But here we are, and I only want good things to keep happening here.
I will point to ORDinary's post, however, and say that his facts are completely correct - those flow numbers were claimed in numerous company communications. This is what I should have directed my posts towards, and not blamed the posters on APC or TA - 300+ in 2016, and 330+ in 2017. We know the 2016 number did not happen, and it appears that 2017 will fall well short, as well. We all have a vested interest in the flow trucking along as fast as it can, and even a month delay will end up costing one tens of thousands of dollars.
08-24-2017 | 04:25 AM
#26
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
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Well, even if AA had hired as many as they said they would, Envoy still would not have flowed as many as they said. Envoy disingenuously claimed they would flow "330 plus" in 2017. The real maximum it could have been was about 275, and now that is looking more like 250 or less. In 2016, RW claimed we would flow 300+, and we flowed 254.
I completely agree that nobody is "messing with" the flow if AA just chooses not to hire. But AA choosing not to hire, or AA getting backed up in training, has always been a possibility, despite what company salesmen claim. Based on this year and last, perhaps everyone should add about 20% or more to their flow estimate. Especially since if AA can't keep up with training now, they may really have trouble when retirements increase sharply over the next few years. If best case scenario has someone going in 5 years, expect 6+. A new hire today who projects to go in 8 should more realistically expect about 9.5. It's still a guess but the salesmanship exaggerating flow times is frustrating. Flow is obviously still a great benefit, but these delays are a constant disappointment if you don't have a realistic perspective.
I completely agree that nobody is "messing with" the flow if AA just chooses not to hire. But AA choosing not to hire, or AA getting backed up in training, has always been a possibility, despite what company salesmen claim. Based on this year and last, perhaps everyone should add about 20% or more to their flow estimate. Especially since if AA can't keep up with training now, they may really have trouble when retirements increase sharply over the next few years. If best case scenario has someone going in 5 years, expect 6+. A new hire today who projects to go in 8 should more realistically expect about 9.5. It's still a guess but the salesmanship exaggerating flow times is frustrating. Flow is obviously still a great benefit, but these delays are a constant disappointment if you don't have a realistic perspective.
08-24-2017 | 05:36 AM
#27
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Joined: Sep 2010
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If flow is being delayed for AA training backlog God forbid if anything with the world market happens.......the flow is nice having but as it is Being shown it is worthless to most here. You have a better chance doing job fairs and getting hired at a competitor then flowing to AA anytime soon.
08-24-2017 | 05:47 AM
#28
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 991
Likes: 9
If flow is being delayed for AA training backlog God forbid if anything with the world market happens.......the flow is nice having but as it is Being shown it is worthless to most here. You have a better chance doing job fairs and getting hired at a competitor then flowing to AA anytime soon.
08-24-2017 | 05:51 AM
#29
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Joined: Jan 2017
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If flow is being delayed for AA training backlog God forbid if anything with the world market happens.......the flow is nice having but as it is Being shown it is worthless to most here. You have a better chance doing job fairs and getting hired at a competitor then flowing to AA anytime soon.
08-24-2017 | 06:14 AM
#30
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Maybe I wasn't clear about my opinion. Even if AA had no backlog, we would have fallen well short of 330+. The 330+ claim, made by Envoy management, was dishonest. When AA training backlogs happen, it adds to the frustration begun by their dishonesty. I am just trying to advocate that people temper their expectations not only because of potential AA training backlogs (which are not Envoy's fault, obviously, but which will likely happen every year), but also from Envoy's claims.
Also I am not sure recommending people temper their expectations is the same thing as getting bent out of shape. If you would like to see examples of people getting bent out of shape, take a look back at all of the company apologists denouncing anyone who didn't believe the company's flow claims when they were made.
Also I am not sure recommending people temper their expectations is the same thing as getting bent out of shape. If you would like to see examples of people getting bent out of shape, take a look back at all of the company apologists denouncing anyone who didn't believe the company's flow claims when they were made.
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