Swayne The Way
 

Look everyone, what's your problem. If what he's doing isn't it your favor and you want him to address something else then any of you can pick your cell phones, address the situation and post it too on YT. Stop ****ing in his cup. Times change and every situation is different. His time is now and to some of us he's given us a clear insight of crew scheduling of being on reserve and holding a line. Plus a bit of pay expectation.
If there are issues with management what has he got to do with it? C'mon guys give him a break and let him enjoy his regional life. The more negative you sound towards him the stronger and smarter he gets.
I'll be 1000% willing to fly with him any day and time.
Do you know how proud my dad will be to see me as the first pilot in an airline environment in the family's entire generation?

From shoving snow in MD to lawnmowing in NC+ Louisiana and FL: All in order to pay for flight training including time 1.5k hours and tell me once if Envoy offers me a job I'll walk away. (Of which I was offered, gladly accepted and signed over a year ago)

Let's all with real here and nothing personal to anyone here. Sorry if I have but it is what it is I guess.

First off, proofread before you go onto a tangent. Not saying I am perfect but your post was hard to read.

Second, most people could care less about the person, his lifestyle, his personality or his YouTube channel. Good on him for making a name and becoming famous in this small world.

The problem people have is that he is an active Envoy recruiting asset that is encouraging, regardless of him actually saying it, people to come here when we are in the midst of contract negotiations. While his videos are not lies, they certainly dont tell the entire story.

They dont tell the issues with the contract, they dont talk about how CS will break the contract when they see fit, they dont talk about how low our pay has become, they dont talk about our crappy reserve rules, they dont talk about our hostile management and hostile CPO's, etc.

He is a recruiting tool for the company, end of story. If he wasn't useful to them, they wouldn't allow him to do it and that is the problem. He is either supporting the company agenda or he is supporting his fellow ENVOY PILOTS agenda. If you can't see that, well that is your problem and not ours.

Thanks for your reply please make a video explaining all this and counter his approach and misleading info out there if that's the case.

Any social media posts about company operations are now a violation of FM1 and you'll most likey be fired for it. Unless, of course, it's positive.

Yep initially his cutesy videos were naive and unrealistic but nominally helpful to newbies and not hurting anyone. No longer the case, currently his management approved recruitment propaganda, is directly working against the MEC and destroying the substantial leverage a lack of applicants produce. His growing influence with so many new pilots means with out any meaningful merit or experience as an aviator, he has become the defacto authority on this industry to many, his intention or not. His large following has provided him a platform to reach many young aviators in a uniquely direct way that when used correctly can be beneficial to all. His followers view and trust him as a reliable source for industry info and believe he is giving an accurate picture. As such he should strive to provide guidance and insight that is balanced, unbiased and not serving a external motive. He owes this to those he “influences” and those already in the industry these things effect. Many in this same thread defend (mostly new young FOs or CFI) defend his videos and say they are helpful and accurate. However more experienced pilots who have been in the industry awhile see them as what they are, recruiting tools that only help management. Unknown or realized by many young viewers, his narrative is greatly biased by his inexperience and commitment to management goals and ideals. To older guys his videos are nothing more then aviation porn exhibiting an inexperienced view point to inexperienced viewers. Although on the surface harmless and entertaining they quickly become quite damaging during negotiations. The blind leading the blind is never good for anyone. His videos lack the truly comprehensive and complete airline info many newbies believe they are receiving. Would you want your doctor prescribing meds from a company they own? Of course not, it’s a conflict of loyalty between patient health and Dr wallet. His videos, unknown to most viewers actually hurt newbies by showing management approved content only and omitting the important but real negative components his viewers deserve . This career is very dynamic and unique and new pilots must be appropriately informed of all aspects not just management approved. Some viewers will be blindsided by all the important info he leaves out in an attempt to pacify management. Aviation can bring so many different career opportunities and expectations that info like his is priceless when properly conveyed. As demonstrated in this thread some young pilots don’t know what they don’t know, and lack the meaningful industry experience to see a problem and state as such on this thread.

No-one has produced an actual counter argument to show how his videos are helping and not hurting pilots. They rely on character attacks calling people salty or jealous if they articulate how his videos are actually hurting pilots.

I’m not allowed too. You have to have Envoys blessing else risk a termination for social media. Hence proving my point even more.

He and he alone is allowed to make those videos.

Why should Envoy, or any other business, trust you to represent them in front of the public after the way you guys have acted on this public thread?

Well Explained
 

Honestly I totally agree with everyone. If He's acting on the blessing of Management to produce their line of words for recruitment purposes, then my opinion, I suggest he should be disregarded and may also wish a senior pilot pull him to the side and have a Father and Son talk. Because in the long run, it's going to hurt all of us.

Thanks to everyone and really appreciate the input. I was wrong earlier and I accept my error in misjudgment.

So you agree that he is an arm of the envoy managment recruiting team?

This times 2499, because that is about the number of other Envoy pilots that would be targeted for termination if they did try and present the rest of the story on any kind of social media that they were identifiable on.

One literally was just terminated for it.

That wasn’t what the company said!

But yes, that is the entire point!!

Thanks again for proving our point about how uninformed Swayne and his supporters truly are. This forum is the best place to get the truth out to potential new hires before they come here and realize that they made a mistake. We have a margin of safety to tell the truth because we can post anonymously, but we risk being doxxed and fired.

Good for you putting in the work to become qualified. Now do yourself and the rest of us a favor and refrain from applying to the places that are keeping pay low and QOL bad.

So you agree that many posts made by pilots on this thread are insensitive and unprofessional, which helps to justify Envoy's decision not trust any of you to represent their company on any public social media platforms?

Well this is getting us nowhere. They don’t trust us because unlike Swayne we would actually tell the truth about what is really going on here, not some white washed version of life on reserve.

You believe what you believe and I will believe what I believe. I haven’t said a single insensitive thing about this kid so you can take that argument elsewhere. I have clearly stated my opinion and supported it.

Any action at this point that helps the company or shows them in a positive light is a direct affront to the current pilot group and the union.

Show me where I said "Cyio said insensitive things". You pulled that out of nowhere.

Many people here have freely stated their opinions, and that's part of why Envoy shouldn't trust them. Any professional pilot should understand why certain things can't be said in public.

I was stating that I haven’t made any comments because it was apparent you were trying to use “insensitive “ comments as a reason why the company shouldn’t trust us. If I haven’t made any then they should trust me by your logic.

Perhaps so, but many of your coworkers have. After what I've seen here, they would be crazy to allow any of you to represent them in public without their expressed approval.

There have clearly been some posts that have been aimed personally at Swayne and his lifestyle and whether you agree or disagree either side of the subject, they have no place on this forum and thus have no bearing on this issue.

Doesn’t change all the valid arguments about why his videos need to stop until the pay issue is addressed.

Please pump the brakes on the whole “insensitivity” and everything hurts my feelings defense. A lot of us come here to get away from the overly politically correct crowd. Just because the social justice warriors and their virtual signaling are the loudest voice in the room doesn’t make them the most correct. Just because someone doesn’t agree with what is said or losing an argument, doesn’t make it insensitive, racist or what ever term of endearment is thrown out. Do they not teach about sticks and stones in school anymore. Contrary to what some may think words can not actually hurt someone if you don’t let it. This forum is not a “safe place” it’s a place to talk shop with other professionals and maybe crack a smile or two. Although I disagree with a lot of peoples extreme opinions or rude comments on different topics. I still respect their right to say it and just choose to not get personally offended. It’s easy everyone should try it!

Thank you. Please explain this to Cyio.

Valid arguments or not, there is a better way to handle the issue than to personally attack someone online, and in public. Not to mention thousands of fellow crew members who happen to live a different lifestyle that some of you called "disgusting". Tell me again why Envoy should trust their name to its pilots on social media?

You're behind the conversation. Or maybe you can explain to me how Envoy would use this post to find a way to trust its pilots to represent them on social media.

I'll allow anyone in my jumpseat. I'm 3 years into the 121 world. However, I have no place in my life for bigotry, racism or sexism. Check your attitude at the door gents.

I am in agreement with you that a lot stuff posted on here is unprofessional. That is kinda what makes this place. You can articulate how you feel on different subject matter with out worrying about effecting your career and livelihood. I think you are over reaching a bit, comparing how someone communicates on here somehow related to how professional they perform their job. Hell the leader of the free world acts less then presidential on twitter everyday. I would hope and assume that most on here don’t act the same at work, in the cockpit or on the jumpseat. That is kinda the premise of an anonymous forum isn’t it?

And I think you are under-reaching. We are talking about business, not the sentiments of pilots escaping to the non-PC world to post their ugliness. Envoy doesn't need to care about why you guys are posting this crap here. It's an unnecessary risk to allow people who voice these types of opinions anywhere to represent their brand to the public. Put yourself in their shoes.

I’m not saying Swayne would, but I have seen many instances throughout my life where people were talked to in a professional manner and told that something they were doing was unprofessional or harmful to their career or others and were subsequently reprimanded or targeted as being biased for race/sex/religion/whatever. None have a legitimate bearing on any argument that is not about that those particular subjects.

Everyone should be free to make their arguments for or against subjects relating to, in this case, the company and its actions in the pay issue.

Envoy would never allow that and has targeted people in the past. Doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not someone says “Yo mamma is a @$&^#” or you’re a whatever.

Too late, you can't make that argument here. The reason is these posts below. Your colleagues have already made it about "those particular subjects".

So a few individuals completely negate a valid argument?

You are really reaching. You are doing the same thing and trying to invalidate the person instead of the point being made.

That pretty much means there are NEVER any valid arguments for ANYTHING because there are ALMOST always a few crackpots that are outliers on the bell curve.

I've only told you why the "instances you've seen throughout your life" don't apply to this conversation. The simple fact is, the conversation here has been less than professional, and attacks were made based on sex/religion/race/whatever. So, the group as a whole can't pretend to be martyrs and say that they've communicated their opinions about this person in a professional manner only to be attacked. What other argument are you trying to make?

The above sentiments I strongly disagree with. However they are people stating their opinions and beliefs on certain matters and I can’t control how others say it or their right to say it. All I can control is how I react to it. My kids happen to be a different race then their mother and I. We spend a lot of energy preparing them for how cruel the real world can be and they can’t control others thoughts and actions only how they decide to react to it. I can’t teach my kids to ignore other prejudices if I get offended or yell racist every time I feel some one said something I perceive as “insensitive “. Spewing words no matter how hurtful can’t harm others only actions and reactions can. Although I do not agree with them. Their comments are far from hate speech. You are strongly virtual signaling with your constant attempt to make everything about someone’s sexuality. You must be young, I realize in your belief everyone is a victim but I can assure you as your get older you grown to tired to always be offended by everything. That is a young mans game. This thread doesn’t have to be professional that’s the point of the forum. You nor I have any control on how people comment. None of this invalidates the loads of reason based arguments present here.

What arguments am I attacking exactly? As far as I can remember, I have only shown why Envoy is justified in not trusting Envoy pilots to represent their brand in public media. We are not talking about raising your kids. We are talking about business. Tell me why it would make business sense for Envoy to trust the same pilots who made the bigoted posts here to represent their company brand?

This^^

From day one, his videos have had shots that would get anyone else at this company at best chewed out by the CPO, or terminated. His videos have the stamp of recruiting material all over them.

As I said in an earlier post, this sort of social media influencer material is a gold mine for corporations these days. To say that these videos are simply an innocuous side project is to willfully ignore the sales value that this delivers to the company at the detriment of this pilot group.

Inclusivity is great, but hopefully that doesn't include scabs, et al.

I think I can speak for everyone when I say wth are you talking about? No one is asking to represent envoy on social media. You're just willfully ignoring any points made.

You can't speak for everyone, because you are just willfully ignoring the conversation.
There are people here complaining that they can't make social media posts using Envoy's brand, yet won't acknowledge that no company would want to be represented by the public posts some of you guys have actually been making.

I am not trying to be rude but I have to be blunt. You are missing the forest for the trees. No one here has said that they represent envoy on social media. In fact they are claiming the opposite. They are saying because they would tell things how they really are and not what management portrays, Envoy has a lot to lose if all the potential prospects knew how envoy really treated pilots not the white wash version Swayne portrays. No one here I can assure you has any desire to represent envoy on social media. Pilot here have to gripes with what Swayne is doing. The first is he is using his online following to further managements agenda and therefore hurt his fellow pilots. Second he is low time young guy with little experience and rather most of us like it not he is representing all of us to the masses who don’t know better. .

I am not even discussing whether or not pilots should or shouldn't dislike the videos. My statements have been simple. I have started by saying that personally attacking people anonymously and in public is unprofessional, not to mention cowardly. The fact that anyone's sexuality has been brought into this thread shows just how embarrassing the conduct has been so far. Do you disagree?

Then, I responded to posts that attacked someone for having company permission to use their brand in social media, while they don't have that same permission. I challenged you to put yourself in Envoy's shoes and understand what a financial risk it would be to allow their brand to be represented by a group of people who have no problem publicly calling people "disgusting" because of their sexual preference. You are not anonymous. Envoy management knows you are Envoy pilots and can read these posts along with the general public. Why should they trust anyone here with their brand without vetting them first? There shouldn't be any complaints here about being forbidden from representing Envoy in social media, because there is proof here that Envoy pilots at large can't be trusted.

Finally, I understand how it looks that Envoy specifically allows certain posts that don't portray it in a negative light, and how a logo can be used as subliminal advertising even without direct "recruiting". If you disagree with the videos and/or their timing, there are certain channels to be used to have your concerns addressed professionally. I wonder how many of you have talked to your reps, or to the person himself, before making personal attacks here from behind your screen name...?

It’s hard to listen to somebody talking about being professional when their username is poop plop. But I digress...

I’ll agree that some of the comments on here are uncalled for, but realistically they only represent about 0.0001% of this thread and you’re making it seem like it’s a majority and a reason why the argument against Swayne making videos has no merit.

Your argument gives the impression that a group of 2,499 scientists could find a cure for cancer but if 3 of them made a bigoted remark you would dismiss the group as a whole and wait another 100 years for someone else to find a cure.

Quit diverting attention and help your pilot group. Pay and QOL should be your number one priority right now.... not something 0.0001% of your coworkers have said.

A guy who calls himself Thedude86 says my screen name is not legitimate enough? You only prove my point.

And again, whether or not the company should trust its pilots at large on social media has no bearing on any arguments as to whether or not anyone should approve or disapprove of the videos. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

I never made any arguments about being professional. That’s all on you.

And obviously the company wouldn’t trust anyone else because they know they would tell it like it is. No one would show up for class. “I don’t know why that’s so hard for you to understand.”