BigZ

welcome on board, inhale, exhale, settle in.
buddies means that the management talk is akin to the interpretations of Ouija board. Sometimes it falls in the ballpark, sometimes it doesn't. Path to the inner peace lays through accepting that sooner rather than later.

ninerdriver

Sounds like someone has a personal financial incentive to increase the size of their pilot group ASAP.

pitchattitude

If you are thinking that I am concerned about “increasing the size of the pilot group ASAP”, you missed my point. Envoy is willing to pay people to sit knowing they don’t have the capacity to train them because they are afraid if they don’t hire them before any other job offers or classes are available those pilots may realize there are better places to go.

The new bonus is not a reason to go to Envoy and the flow, under the current agreement, is not a reason to go to Envoy and really hasn’t ever been. Quality of life and pay aren’t a reason. So, bottom line you have to have something particular to you about Envoy to make it work.

ninerdriver

Nope. I'm thinking Envoy management has a personal financial incentive from AA to keep y'all staffed.

Getting people on the roster before they bail somewhere else is a plausible reason, too, though.

Cujo665

They used to be able to run a 3200 pilot airline and multiple new hire and upgrade classes simultaneously. These idiots they have running the place now had trouble running it at 1900 pilots let alone 2500. Jim Winkley helped build a great airline over 20 years. Rick Wilson and his chosen few (all chosen because they’re even dumber than he is so they can’t take his job) took a whopping 20 months to run it into the ground. The union, 5 out of 7 MEC members plus the chairman and Vice Chairman all told Pedro in person that Ric was nit the guy. That his zeal to pinch pennies would lead to a disastrous event. Well, how many near events were in the FAA warning again? They still haven’t learned.

Your correct, the bonus is no reason to,put up with the horrific lifestyle they impose upon you, and it’s not enough to suffer it out for a 9 year flow after PSA/PDT guys are/were getting there sooner.

Oh, the 2 MEC members that didn’t object to Wilson were both schoolhouse…. Basically company spies.

gbo2

Is it really as bad as he’s making it out to be?

3400

Horrific lifestyle? No.

9 year flow? Probably not that long, for me it will probably be ballpark 6-7 year flow, right in the middle of estimates from the recruiters and the union.

But management here it seems like has no idea what they’re doing, particularly with the pointless furloughing of pilots that we desperately need now.

Cujo665

were you here before the bankruptcy?
it’s a shadow of what it was. If you live in base it can be okay. If you’re commuting it’s pretty darn bad. Many guys down to less than 8 days at home due to commutability issues. Nearly half the pilots on reserve at one time, that may have improved some but they’ve always had way more reserves than other carriers. They still do airport standby as a whole month line. They’ll assign as many airport standby shifts as they have seats in the crew quiet room. No long call, just short call. it’s not as bad living in base, Just don’t even get sick, have a family emergency, or even a death in the family. The union had to fight to get a guys missed assignment changed to bereavement because they just suck. They gave out missed assignments during ice storms that shut the airport down with no flights leaving. The stuff these clown pull on their pilots is ridiculous and most of the industry knows it.

the only guys getting a 6-7 year flow were pretty much those around 2015-2016 hires. It may come down a little as attrition picks up.

there was a time that Eagle-Envoy was a good deal. They literally had 50% of every new position at AA. That’s been so watered down that it’s not even the insurance policy it used to be. That’s why they’re paying $150k to bribe people to stay and flow to AA. Look, a no interview flow to AA and $150k isn’t even enough to stop their attrition problems.
what does that tell you?

They could easily fix it. Start treating the pilots like professionals. Stop harassing them over anything and everything. Get rid of Rick and Jane. Get together with the union and write some decent reserve rules. Fix all the contract loopholes and make the job worth keeping instead. Stop abusing your employees, not just the pilots.

look, with personnel and discipline now PRIA reportable guys are stupid to go to a place like Envoy where their answer to everything is a step letter. That will follow them around, and you’ll have to hold onto all the paperwork to prove they really were that petty. Yes, Envoy management is that far out of the norm.
I used to recommend Envoy to new pilots, but it’s just not the good deal it was anymore. There are much better options for new pilots.

TransWorld

You said on another thread you had been fired by Envoy three times. Why was it? Attitude? Performance? If it was negative attitudes voiced here, I can believe it.

My dad, who was a worker bee in Human Resources (not airlines) say never badmouth your current employer. Once you have left and are working at another company, d**n them until your heart’s content.

Where do you currently work?

Cujo665

The one line answer. I took union work seriously, and as a result was a thorn in their side.

it was fabrications which is why I was always back so quickly. The ALPA lawyers said it was worth the back pay to them to not have me aggravating them daily. I said if they stop violating the contract and harassing the pilots daily, they can have the aggravation gone. The last time, with AA HR showing up the message was clear that even if I did come back again, they’d just get me on probation at AA with no recourse.

Check your PM’s for the details.

There isn’t a single FO at Envoy that couldn’t get on with Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, Atlas, ATI, ABX and have a much better quality of life, pay, and work rules. Going now, rather than waiting to flow in 6-9 years works out in their favor. Going to any of those places now and you’d be a Captain before they upgrade at the Voy. Look, they’re having to bribe guys with $150k to get them to stay and flow. That alone should tell you how bad they are to work for.