chihuahua

Yeah, that's my big sticking point is that if you get stuck into the 145 you are locked out of the 175 and the MIA base without displacement or upgrade. What's worse is it seems like the 145 is the plane that's still going away (slowly) so they need to keep it staffed till the end, with the block times and schedules getting worse and worse as more routes go to bigger planes.

CptnDave

I know a guy in the class Monday, looks like all 40 are cadets.

pitchattitude

Flying in DFW verses ORD are two different animals. Seems like ORD still has some good trips but I haven’t looked closely. Yes, the fleet will die a painful death at some point, and I think that’s still a ways off, but doesn’t really help your situation.

Sometimes all you can do is roll the dice and hope they land in your favor, or just continue to sit on the sidelines with your present life until something else comes along.

pitchattitude

You’re saying the ENY class Monday has 40 cadets in it?? If they are, I can’t imagine them all starting training immediately following on boarding and indoc. Company probably just wants to get their hooks into them and will put them in training as they can.

Chato

interesting biddin then, I guess they’ll go by either age or company seniority, im thinkin the latter

havick206

even if you got 175 FO in new hire class, keep in mind forced upgrades (most likely into the 145 as a junior CA) is a real thing when Emvoy can’t fill CA slots due to FO’s holding out.

CptnDave

They’ve all been to an orientation already, which was technically their first day on property, and they got seniority numbers and have been on training pay for a couple months now. With CASS too. Their seniority was based on company seniority from what I understand.

pitchattitude

Still be some sad faces when those bottom list people find out they have to fly a plane with engines in the back and not under the wing.

🛩 😢

chihuahua

Yeah, no I get it, you're exactly right. Eventually you have to sh1t or get off the pot. No matter what I'd really be kinda starting over really at the bottom of a regional seniority list, the only difference being that I'd have tempered expectations of what the life is, knowledge of how management likes to be sneaky and screw pilots over, and just general operational experience I didn't have when I first started a few years ago. All that said, even with all the legitimate faults with companies like Envoy and every regional, it still seems that if someone does commit to any of the three AA wholly owneds, it's as close as you'll ever get to a "guaranteed" spot at a major airline, even if it takes 15 years.

Yeah I forgot about that happening a few years back. I assume the upgrade bonuses are an attempt to avoid a repeat of that. Do CA's get locked into seats/bases or is that only a new hire FO thing in the contract?

pitchattitude

Not locked into a base, even as a FO. Upgrade incurs a two year equipment lock, unless displaced and one year before you can flow to AA.

Bonus aren’t really as much to encourage upgrade as it is to keep those captains at the respective company. There are hundreds, maybe as many as a 7-800 that have the time to upgrade, waiting for a vacancy and those will be very much based on seniority. But then there is a big hole after that with folks that have been stuck on reserve and no one hired below them. Those 1000 hour two plus year FOs are the ones mostly leaving. 60 or so total in August. Probably 60% FOs. They don’t think they can upgrade anytime soon so bailing for ULLCs and ACMI.