In his pocket book.


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Not a popular idea I'm sure but how about instead of pay increases we get more flow? Up to 50-55 a month for all pilot groups (PP,L1011,DOS) with flow protections. No more "they can pull the flow at any moment". Play the long game folks.

 

No thanks. Terrible idea. Even an iron clad agreement such as the one you proposed, would be violated without consequence if the company felt like it. A grievance would take years and years to conclude with a good possibility that the company would win in arbitration anyways due to unforeseen operational necessities. Critical thinking here is key. The “long game” IS higher pay rates. Nothing less will do. Pay rates or let it burn.


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How is the long game higher Envoy pay? Getting to AA 1-2 years sooner with a quicker flow (essentially getting to and sitting in that left seat at AA 1-2 years sooner equating to around an extra $700K +/- $150K depending on what airplane) seems like it makes more sense than to make an extra $12-$15K here sitting at our current flow rates with the possibility of "having the flow pulled" Hope it doesn't seem like I'm arguing, just having a discussion.

 

The flow is going as fast as it possibly can without the airline collapsing. We are short captains in perpetuity, forced upgrades. It's not happening.

Only way the flow increases is if the airline grows.

 

Higher pay is the long game because the music can stop at any time and we can all can be stuck being grossly underpaid for a long, long time.

Settling for increased flow is a form of rationalizing and excuses management from offering a market rate. It’s a weak and submissive/beta attitude, in my opinion. You can’t provide for your family now with shaky hopes of making money at mainline a bit sooner. Nothing is ever guaranteed. Additionally, you could unexpectedly lose your medical at any time. What good would that flow do you? At least you could have benefited from better pay while you were at the regional level and tried to save a buffer, or at least afforded loss of medical insurance.

Even with a pay increase, we are still vastly underpaid compared to AA or others, and we do even more work (more legs per sequence, worse work rules, worse QOL, worse management) than mainline or ULCC.

As if that’s not reason enough, AA benefits from the flow themselves. They get a steady supply of proven aviators, and the flow allows them to keep their costs low by reducing the # of lifers at the top of the pay scale, and allows them a carrot to dangle in front of you so that you will agree to work for substantially less than your “peers” on the e190 at AA.

So flow is great and all, but never as a trade off for market value pay rates now.


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The money is for sure, flow isn’t. In addition having to pay us more incentives then to flow us ASAP.

 

Please stop negotiating in public forums. Talk to the union.

 

And when AAG goes bankrupt and stops hiring? What’s your plan then?

 

If that happens in the next decade then we’re all screwed, now aren’t we?