Flow upgrade time with military experience
02-10-2019, 07:12 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,656
Originally Posted by Nazgul
, thanks for the info. Trust me, there is nothing I hate more than ‘that’s the way we’ve always done it’.
, currently rocking a low reg right now, not sure how much longer I can make the top until my SgtMaj says it’s not in USMC standards
haha
, currently rocking a low reg right now, not sure how much longer I can make the top until my SgtMaj says it’s not in USMC standards
haha
02-10-2019, 09:29 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 294
Originally Posted by Cyio
I know it isn't a popular thing to say, but I still dont understand why a 10 year military guy gets picked over 10 year regional guys. Assuming both have clean records and a degree, the regional guy should go first.
I know I know, AF pilots are so talented and it shows commitment etc. Well so does sticking it out at a regional and passing recurrent/check rides every year. Not to mention the regional pilot will be far more familiar with the operations required for 121.
This isn't the 1970's anymore when you needed the military to train you to fly and/or needed to be an engineer to run these machines. It certainly doesn't take knowledge of dropping a bomb to fly an airbus and you cant tell me that experience is more relevant than that of a regional pilot who has probably had a dozen or more 121 emergencies, countless re-routes, fuel issues etc...I also agree that a military pilot can pick up all that very easily, this is rocket science by any means.
Again, I feel I need to throw out that I fully support our military men and women, but it does seem to be a bit unfair/biased in this hiring situation.
I know I know, AF pilots are so talented and it shows commitment etc. Well so does sticking it out at a regional and passing recurrent/check rides every year. Not to mention the regional pilot will be far more familiar with the operations required for 121.
This isn't the 1970's anymore when you needed the military to train you to fly and/or needed to be an engineer to run these machines. It certainly doesn't take knowledge of dropping a bomb to fly an airbus and you cant tell me that experience is more relevant than that of a regional pilot who has probably had a dozen or more 121 emergencies, countless re-routes, fuel issues etc...I also agree that a military pilot can pick up all that very easily, this is rocket science by any means.
Again, I feel I need to throw out that I fully support our military men and women, but it does seem to be a bit unfair/biased in this hiring situation.
@V22 guy, Hoo Rah! As a former USMC Enlisted man, I get to watch it from both perspectives. I get the veteran perk, but not the "I flew in the military" perk. Some of the best guys I ever flew with were the former enlisted guys that did thier fying outside of the military. They have the military bearing, but with a humble GA background.
02-10-2019, 10:42 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by Cyio
I know it isn't a popular thing to say, but I still dont understand why a 10 year military guy gets picked over 10 year regional guys. Assuming both have clean records and a degree, the regional guy should go first.
02-10-2019, 02:13 PM
#24
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Position: Regional FO
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Cyio
It certainly doesn't take knowledge of dropping a bomb to fly an airbus and you cant tell me that experience is more relevant than that of a regional pilot who has probably had a dozen or more 121 emergencies, countless re-routes, fuel issues etc...I also agree that a military pilot can pick up all that very easily, this is rocket science by any means.
Again, I feel I need to throw out that I fully support our military men and women, but it does seem to be a bit unfair/biased in this hiring situation.
Again, I feel I need to throw out that I fully support our military men and women, but it does seem to be a bit unfair/biased in this hiring situation.
If you think your dozen emergencies, countless re-routes, and fuel issues are unique to your regional experience, you have a severe lack of knowledge of what a military pilot does. Airlines don’t hire military pilots for their skills at dropping bombs or dogfighting. They do it for the exact reasons you listed as being unique to you.
Imagine completing an 8 hour mission and flying back to the boat at night . While shooting your approach, you lose electrical power and have to now fly off of your standby instruments while trying to fly your way to a good start 3/4 miles behind the ship on speed and on glide slope. You command too much power at the ramp and end up going around. Luckily, your displays come to life again after slamming into the deck just past the 4 wire. The tower rep calls and tells you that your signal is divert due to your low fuel state and lack of airborne tankers. You break out your charts and approach plates, hand fly your bingo profile towards the nearest divert in a foreign country. You work your international clearance and shoot an emergency fuel approach down to mins and land successfully. Oh, I forgot to mention you are the flight lead and your wingman has his own emergency and fuel issues that you have been monitoring and talking him through while he’s flying formation.
This scenario and ones like it occur daily in military aviation.
Hopefully this makes it a little more fair/unbiased when you think about it.
02-10-2019, 02:41 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: 175 CA
Posts: 1,285
Originally Posted by Rg11
If you think your dozen emergencies, countless re-routes, and fuel issues are unique to your regional experience, you have a severe lack of knowledge of what a military pilot does. Airlines don’t hire military pilots for their skills at dropping bombs or dogfighting. They do it for the exact reasons you listed as being unique to you.
Imagine completing an 8 hour mission and flying back to the boat at night . While shooting your approach, you lose electrical power and have to now fly off of your standby instruments while trying to fly your way to a good start 3/4 miles behind the ship on speed and on glide slope. You command too much power at the ramp and end up going around. Luckily, your displays come to life again after slamming into the deck just past the 4 wire. The tower rep calls and tells you that your signal is divert due to your low fuel state and lack of airborne tankers. You break out your charts and approach plates, hand fly your bingo profile towards the nearest divert in a foreign country. You work your international clearance and shoot an emergency fuel approach down to mins and land successfully. Oh, I forgot to mention you are the flight lead and your wingman has his own emergency and fuel issues that you have been monitoring and talking him through while he’s flying formation.
This scenario and ones like it occur daily in military aviation.
Hopefully this makes it a little more fair/unbiased when you think about it.
Imagine completing an 8 hour mission and flying back to the boat at night . While shooting your approach, you lose electrical power and have to now fly off of your standby instruments while trying to fly your way to a good start 3/4 miles behind the ship on speed and on glide slope. You command too much power at the ramp and end up going around. Luckily, your displays come to life again after slamming into the deck just past the 4 wire. The tower rep calls and tells you that your signal is divert due to your low fuel state and lack of airborne tankers. You break out your charts and approach plates, hand fly your bingo profile towards the nearest divert in a foreign country. You work your international clearance and shoot an emergency fuel approach down to mins and land successfully. Oh, I forgot to mention you are the flight lead and your wingman has his own emergency and fuel issues that you have been monitoring and talking him through while he’s flying formation.
This scenario and ones like it occur daily in military aviation.
Hopefully this makes it a little more fair/unbiased when you think about it.
The goal of 121 is to stay in the middle of the safety, legal, efficicency and comfort envelopes as much as possible. Most of that comes from familiarity with rules and regulations.
When was the last time you pushed off a gate? Ground stops? How many 121 reg are committed to memory? Can you apply them? Can you fly around without your paperwork getting the airline violated?
A lot of military pilots walk into the airlines expecting to own the place, yet don't even know what's going on.
02-10-2019, 02:57 PM
#27
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,465
Originally Posted by Rg11
Imagine completing an 8 hour mission and flying back to the boat at night . While shooting your approach, you lose electrical power and have to now fly off of your standby instruments while trying to fly your way to a good start 3/4 miles behind the ship on speed and on glide slope. You command too much power at the ramp and end up going around. Luckily, your displays come to life again after slamming into the deck just past the 4 wire. The tower rep calls and tells you that your signal is divert due to your low fuel state and lack of airborne tankers. You break out your charts and approach plates, hand fly your bingo profile towards the nearest divert in a foreign country. You work your international clearance and shoot an emergency fuel approach down to mins and land successfully. Oh, I forgot to mention you are the flight lead and your wingman has his own emergency and fuel issues that you have been monitoring and talking him through while he’s flying formation.
This scenario and ones like it occur daily in military aviation.
Hopefully this makes it a little more fair/unbiased when you think about it.
This scenario and ones like it occur daily in military aviation.
Hopefully this makes it a little more fair/unbiased when you think about it.
I hope NO military pilots get hired in ANY 121 airline, if that's the level of their ADM.
Daily? Wow. Military flying really must suck.
02-10-2019, 03:08 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,656
Originally Posted by Rg11
If you think your dozen emergencies, countless re-routes, and fuel issues are unique to your regional experience, you have a severe lack of knowledge of what a military pilot does. Airlines don’t hire military pilots for their skills at dropping bombs or dogfighting. They do it for the exact reasons you listed as being unique to you.
Imagine completing an 8 hour mission and flying back to the boat at night . While shooting your approach, you lose electrical power and have to now fly off of your standby instruments while trying to fly your way to a good start 3/4 miles behind the ship on speed and on glide slope. You command too much power at the ramp and end up going around. Luckily, your displays come to life again after slamming into the deck just past the 4 wire. The tower rep calls and tells you that your signal is divert due to your low fuel state and lack of airborne tankers. You break out your charts and approach plates, hand fly your bingo profile towards the nearest divert in a foreign country. You work your international clearance and shoot an emergency fuel approach down to mins and land successfully. Oh, I forgot to mention you are the flight lead and your wingman has his own emergency and fuel issues that you have been monitoring and talking him through while he’s flying formation.
This scenario and ones like it occur daily in military aviation.
Hopefully this makes it a little more fair/unbiased when you think about it.
Imagine completing an 8 hour mission and flying back to the boat at night . While shooting your approach, you lose electrical power and have to now fly off of your standby instruments while trying to fly your way to a good start 3/4 miles behind the ship on speed and on glide slope. You command too much power at the ramp and end up going around. Luckily, your displays come to life again after slamming into the deck just past the 4 wire. The tower rep calls and tells you that your signal is divert due to your low fuel state and lack of airborne tankers. You break out your charts and approach plates, hand fly your bingo profile towards the nearest divert in a foreign country. You work your international clearance and shoot an emergency fuel approach down to mins and land successfully. Oh, I forgot to mention you are the flight lead and your wingman has his own emergency and fuel issues that you have been monitoring and talking him through while he’s flying formation.
This scenario and ones like it occur daily in military aviation.
Hopefully this makes it a little more fair/unbiased when you think about it.
02-10-2019, 04:35 PM
#29
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: MV22b
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by dera
Daily?
I hope NO military pilots get hired in ANY 121 airline, if that's the level of their ADM.
Daily? Wow. Military flying really must suck.
I hope NO military pilots get hired in ANY 121 airline, if that's the level of their ADM.
Daily? Wow. Military flying really must suck.
Dera, I think what is trying to be conveyed is that military pilots can perform during high levels of stress and perform the duties not only in their aircraft but lead a formation as well. These types of things do happen daily for us that fly military aircraft, some this severe, some not. The fact is, operating at this level of stress when your life and the lives of the crew and passengers you are responsible for while flying over enemy territory directly relates to 121 operations. Although not as hostile, but the crew and passengers are just as important in both cases. JMHO.
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