Envoy 2020
02-10-2020 | 07:25 PM
#121
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
02-11-2020 | 08:21 PM
#125
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
No, there wasn't. There was a pattern of harassment of union officials by the company. There was taking a vacation and them not allowing a vacation slide, PO, PVD, PE or anything else to cover the few days that weren't covered by vacation time.
Rule #2 of the company says not to be away from work without providing notice. Notice was provided in person that I would not be there the days that were not covered. Therefore the rule was not violated. Rule #2 also says three or more missed assignments is grounds for termination. While the Chief Pilots office could not tell me what the punishment would be for a missed assignment, (not plural since he expected - as I did - that the block of days would be treated as one event) they were fully aware I wouldn't be there those days.
The company policy has steps of discipline. I was fully prepared for the appropriate discipline to keep my family commitment. Between work and the rush of union work, the bankruptcy and CBA negotiations that year, I missed almost every family event of the year. That vacation was also a family reunion. Missing it was not an option if staying married was important.
The company decided to record the single block of missed assignments as separate events each day, rather than as a single event for the block of days which is how they do sick time, missed blocks of 4 day trips and so on. In my case, they recorded them separately and used Rule #2 saying I had three or more consecutive MA's.
They then violated their progressive discipline policy again and said take a CDD or termination. With a family to feed on the meager Eagle wages, I took the CDD for one year. I'm sure being a commuter they expected me to have a MA within the year. Didn't happen.
I could list the many times they removed me from flying to "investigate" violations that they could have resolved with a phone call, or a stop by the CP office. Nope, they'd rather put the PW (paid withheld from service - in other words suspended from flight duty) on your record many times to help their fabricated cases later. They even left one in my file after I gave them documentation proving them wrong, including AA D2 records showing I arrived ready for duty well in advance of a report time.
Eagle/Envoy has fired 4 different union MEC members. One was fired 7 times. Two were fired two times (includes me) and one was fired once. During the heated contract negotiations of 2013-2015 there were two of the seven MEC members fired. Coincidentally these were the two MEC reps who most actively fought for the pilots and against company abuses.
It was still a good company. It still is today. The few executives and managers who take things personally are the biggest problem there. The coworkers were and are some of the best aviators and friends I have ever known. The camaraderie and friendships I made there have endured to this day. I still have many friends there, many in management (though they don't publicly admit it) and many who like myself have moved on to better jobs.
MEGAFUPM, I hope this answered your questions. If not feel free to PM me.
Rule #2 of the company says not to be away from work without providing notice. Notice was provided in person that I would not be there the days that were not covered. Therefore the rule was not violated. Rule #2 also says three or more missed assignments is grounds for termination. While the Chief Pilots office could not tell me what the punishment would be for a missed assignment, (not plural since he expected - as I did - that the block of days would be treated as one event) they were fully aware I wouldn't be there those days.
The company policy has steps of discipline. I was fully prepared for the appropriate discipline to keep my family commitment. Between work and the rush of union work, the bankruptcy and CBA negotiations that year, I missed almost every family event of the year. That vacation was also a family reunion. Missing it was not an option if staying married was important.
The company decided to record the single block of missed assignments as separate events each day, rather than as a single event for the block of days which is how they do sick time, missed blocks of 4 day trips and so on. In my case, they recorded them separately and used Rule #2 saying I had three or more consecutive MA's.
They then violated their progressive discipline policy again and said take a CDD or termination. With a family to feed on the meager Eagle wages, I took the CDD for one year. I'm sure being a commuter they expected me to have a MA within the year. Didn't happen.
I could list the many times they removed me from flying to "investigate" violations that they could have resolved with a phone call, or a stop by the CP office. Nope, they'd rather put the PW (paid withheld from service - in other words suspended from flight duty) on your record many times to help their fabricated cases later. They even left one in my file after I gave them documentation proving them wrong, including AA D2 records showing I arrived ready for duty well in advance of a report time.
Eagle/Envoy has fired 4 different union MEC members. One was fired 7 times. Two were fired two times (includes me) and one was fired once. During the heated contract negotiations of 2013-2015 there were two of the seven MEC members fired. Coincidentally these were the two MEC reps who most actively fought for the pilots and against company abuses.
It was still a good company. It still is today. The few executives and managers who take things personally are the biggest problem there. The coworkers were and are some of the best aviators and friends I have ever known. The camaraderie and friendships I made there have endured to this day. I still have many friends there, many in management (though they don't publicly admit it) and many who like myself have moved on to better jobs.
MEGAFUPM, I hope this answered your questions. If not feel free to PM me.
There has never been a policy when a block of MA's are considered a single event. Especially when they are just before your scheduled vacation block. And even more so after posting pictures from Disney during those missed days.
And you're also skipping the last part of the story.
02-12-2020 | 05:58 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,547
Likes: 0
From: Resigned
To me it's pretty clear that you shouldn't just accept missed assignments and it's also pretty clear that RI got targetted by management for being an obstacle to them through his union activities.
Unfortunately because of the way arbitration works, it is easy and relatively risk free in theory for an ENY manager to target or direct the targetting of a particular pilot and it will never come up in discovery, which is informal at best when it does happen. I've seen this myself with how the company responded to another pilot who likes to complain excessively (imo) about hotels.
Unfortunately because of the way arbitration works, it is easy and relatively risk free in theory for an ENY manager to target or direct the targetting of a particular pilot and it will never come up in discovery, which is informal at best when it does happen. I've seen this myself with how the company responded to another pilot who likes to complain excessively (imo) about hotels.
02-12-2020 | 06:01 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
This isn't entirely accurate, is it?
There has never been a policy when a block of MA's are considered a single event. Especially when they are just before your scheduled vacation block. And even more so after posting pictures from Disney during those missed days.
And you're also skipping the last part of the story.
There has never been a policy when a block of MA's are considered a single event. Especially when they are just before your scheduled vacation block. And even more so after posting pictures from Disney during those missed days.
And you're also skipping the last part of the story.
I have copies of the reports submitted by the CP office (which the company withheld and I got after the arbitration) They referred to the missed assignment, not missed assignments. We expected it to be treated the same as a block of sick days. One event for several days. Same as when you miss on a 4 day trip, recorded as one event of multiple days. When you tell the company put me out sick the next 3 days, it’s one event. When we had snow or WX events they didn’t record MA’s every day, they recorded 1 MA for the block of days. Then later the CP would convert them to commuter policy.
The rule on MA is intended that if you had 4 trips in a month, if you MA’d three consecutive you’d have been out over three weeks. It was never meant for three consecutive days.
The purpose (family reunion) was never in dispute, they were told exactly what the time was for at the same time they were told the block of days I couldn’t be there.
Never tried to hide I was at a family reunion at Disney, told them that at the same time I told them I wouldn’t be there. That was never contested at all.
Read rule #2. It does not say not to be away without permission. It says not to be away without notice; notice had been given. Their words were that’s just a technicality.
like I said, was totally prepared for a step letter, double secret probation, make-up work... some type of punishment. Nobody expected them to record each day individually and attempt to discharge. That was a first as far as ALPA could find.
what was the last part you say I’m skipping? They did a CDD, I signed it. Or that they fired me twice more over the next year and a half in between lots of attempts to make life miserable. Should have fought the CDD. Worst legal advice ever. Picketing them publicly at LGA probably didn’t help, but it what my pilots wanted to do.
In any event it’s water under the bridge and I landed in a much better place. So it actually worked out. Envoy is still a good job, but the flow is losing value daily. They need to fix the work rules and the pay.
Last edited by Cujo665; 02-12-2020 at 06:40 AM.
02-12-2020 | 06:27 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
To me it's pretty clear that you shouldn't just accept missed assignments and it's also pretty clear that RI got targetted by management for being an obstacle to them through his union activities.
Unfortunately because of the way arbitration works, it is easy and relatively risk free in theory for an ENY manager to target or direct the targetting of a particular pilot and it will never come up in discovery, which is informal at best when it does happen. I've seen this myself with how the company responded to another pilot who likes to complain excessively (imo) about hotels.
Unfortunately because of the way arbitration works, it is easy and relatively risk free in theory for an ENY manager to target or direct the targetting of a particular pilot and it will never come up in discovery, which is informal at best when it does happen. I've seen this myself with how the company responded to another pilot who likes to complain excessively (imo) about hotels.
stuff like awards and company recognition were removed from my personnel file. I have copies and a letter from the CP who issued the awards and recognitions that he had placed them into the P-file. Yet they vanished by arbitration time when they claimed I was a bad employee.
We asked for all documentation related to the incident. They withheld the CP reports. I only got them after both CP’s left Envoy and emailed me the reports they filed.
02-12-2020 | 07:00 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Nobody was fired, even though it was more than 3 consecutive MA, nobody given CDD’s or anything more than the corresponding level of punishment based on the company discipline manual.
Well, until me....
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