Ric sent an email on 4/30 regarding it.

 

i know how it works. I was a captain at PSA up until February of this year when I left.

if you were a PSA, envoy or Piedmont pilot and every pilot senior to you was electing not to flow you would be the first guy out... right.

so follow this for a second. American does not have any new hire classes running and they furlough 1000 pilots. It takes 3 years for all the furloughed pilots to get recalled. Then they run the first new hire class in a 3.5 year period of time. Guess what. It added 3.5 years to your flow time. Call it what you want. It’s a preferential hiring program. Until a pilot “flows” and is handed their AA badge and given an APA number they do not work for American Airlines.

I was a captain at PSA which happened to be owned by the same holdings company as American. I enjoyed access to a preferential hiring program that didn’t even require me to interview. All I had to do was have a clean record for the preceding two years and have two years aggregate captain experience. I was not an American pilot.

Saying anything otherwise is not being honest.

 

But we’re still going to AA 3.5 years later. That’s still a flow. Crappy, but it’s not a preferential interview. There is no interview, unless they changed something I’m not aware of that doesn’t make the flow a preferential interview because there isn’t one to begin with


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Nobody is arguing how the company is compartmentalized and structured. It is not preferential hiring, that is a fact. If you want to see preferential hiring go see what the United and Delta programs are. There is an interview process, and they do not HAVE to take you. Once you are hired at PSA/PDT/ENY you can go to AA when your seniority can hold the transfer.

Now, that said, you really need to spend some time and google and read about single carrier petitions and the criteria that is looked at when they decide if a single carrier system exists or not.

Here, I'll even give you a recent decision that did involve AA already AFTER the bankruptcy that has AAG legal so very concerned about a single carrier petition...….… two different companies owned by the same holdings company....

https://atd142.org/wp-content/upload...No.-15-FUI.pdf


Here's one for two legally separate corporations, but one sells the tickets for the other and runs/directs their entire operation.

https://nmb.gov/NMB_Application/wp-c...SWAPA-ALPA.pdf

How many of those are checked off already. Now show them the published company materials of a guaranteed job awaiting them to garner enough seniority, and while still in college being told this is your one and only interview to become an American 777 pilot.....
it's essentially met and been a single carrier for years, but ALPA loses 5,000 members and APA doesn't want their friends, family and squadron buddies starting out at $40k a year, waiting 5 years to break $100k without killing themselves.

 

The point to my post is that WO pilots do not work for AA. Also there are people posting the flow will not be slowed down that much by what’s going on now.


WO pilots are not hired at American until they start at American. That flow program exists only to staff the regional. It has nothing to do with staffing American.

we can call it whatever we want as long as we are honest. Envoy PSA and Piedmont pilots do not work for American.

 

I've been trying to resist responding to your posts here but I can't anymore. There's a little bit of not being aware of your surroundings here:

The ONLY one saying we're AA employees now is just ONE poster that everyone here tries to reject and correct. And he doesn't even work for Envoy anymore. You're arguing semantics with Cujo665 who is NOT that person... and who also does not work here anymore (he was once a high level union rep so has good info about the past though).

 

Don't be moronic; of course they do. They are working for AA like any contractor works for AA. The passengers on the planes are AA passengers, not PSA, PDT or ENY passengers. They are not currently employed by AA would be an accurate statement.

Wrong again. They've already been told they're hired; they just have to complete the time at the regional level first. Essentially and apprenticeship. Their AA start date is deferred, that's all.

They are not employed yet by American; they are most definitely working for American, and have been hired at American; with a start date deferred and dependent upon their seniority list position at their regional. A subtle but significant difference.

The fact remains. AAG is in the colleges and universities telling pipeline candidates that this is their one and only interview for their entire career. They'll complete training in college, teach at the College as an Envoy employee, then transfer from pipeline instructor to Envoy Pilot, can bid the equipment and base they want based upon their seniority, and when their seniority holds it, can bid to go train on the Boeing or Airbus at AA under the APA contract instead of the ALPA contract.
It will be very hard to say that is not a single carrier. They themselves are the ones advertising a single cradle to grave interview.

If you want to say they are not an American Airlines pilot currently, I would 100% agree. The only person saying that to anybody is that company stooge who changes his screen name every few weeks to some different variation of mine. He's got Cujo envy.

 

If cuju was sam pooly the world would make sense.

Both IQ levels are the same. Very plausible stupidity coincidence

PS how was that accelerated 12 pilots help you pool. Nice negotiation for yourself at other pilots expense.

 

they don’t work for American. Period. Contractors are by definition not employees. That’s why they are called contractors.

the recruiters are lying to people to get them to voluntarily work for below standard wages and work rules because they are already “hired” at American. Without an APA number and a single contract it will never be any different.

 

Dude, what does a contractor do? They work for you. These WO contractors work for American, they do not work for Delta, United or JetBlue. They are not AA employees, they Are ENY/PSA/PDT employees.

Recruiters aren't lying to anybody. It is their one and only interview they'll ever take to go from university classroom to 777 cockpit. They will change job titles and work without a CBA, then with an ALPA CBA, and then with an APA CBA.... Still having only interviewed and been hired one time their entire career. The rest will be progression along a structured contractual career path.

It is most definitely not a preferential hiring program like you've been insisting. We specifically designed it to not be.

The fact that they have made it so seamless to go from college to a 777 flight deck is one of the very things they're concerned may be used against them in a single carrier employee class petition. "Cradle to Grave" was the word used at our MEC/company meetings to describe their vision of how the pipeline and flow would work. It has worked exactly as envisioned.

You really should spend some time reading the cases I linked above, and the RLA single carrier criteria.

It's somewhat moot, since it would be difficult to get the ALPA attorneys to file and fight for single carrier since they'd lose 5,000 members. You'd be better off having the three regional MEC's hire an outside firm and do it together.

Getting the mergers committee spooled up - as has been happening recently - is a good idea.