no more growth = no more quick upgrades.

envoys upgrades are not dependant upon growth. Neither are Piedmonts. Both are the best choices right now. Given our commuter and other side programs, ENY is the better of the two. Especially with the eventual replacement of 50 seaters down the road as staffig forces all the small hulls to be replaced with large hulls.

 

Flow really isn't going to be relevant over the next few years. The big 3 are going to vacuum up all the pilots. Regional airlines are going to have a hard enough time staffing anywhere. Envoy too will suffer the same fate as the rest of the regionals. Wholly owneds such as Envoy and others will be the last to die I'm sure but they will die.

PSA is to announce some new deal with flow today at 3pm. I'm for it so long as nothing is traded for it, mostly as a backup plan, but AA is the last place I would want to work in the grand scheme.

In 5 years none of this will even matter.

 

I disagree to an extent.
AFTER the next several years flow may not be as important. However, for the next few years, constant flow (over growth) is the better of the two upgrade drivers.

won't surprise me a bit to see PSA's flow fixed a bit. There'll be more down the road also.

 

You really out to be smarter than applying a linier projection to the future. Your last contract hit the burn pile before it hit its half life. The one before that was terminated premature in BK. What was the last year Envoy worked all the way through a signed contract? Every mainline pilot has been through a seniority merger, and most lost their pensions, projecting a long play in this industry has proven to be disappointing. Seniority can be taken away ask AirTran and Continental and Pinnacle and TWA. Contracts can be taken away ask your company and reps.
The only thing that cannot be taken away is your log book. 1,000 to 1 pilots have been hired by what's in their log books as opposed to a contract flow.
I am not saying your assessment is incorrect, its just based on the rules today. That's like telling a 21 year old to calculate his Social Security income at 62 based on the rules today, when he knows darn well the rules wont be the same.

 

You really are a scared old guy, aren't you ?

I know it's easy to rationalize your argument considering your personal flow situation, but to this minute you have yet to A. show one single word of commitment to Envoy pilots in regards to your flow-through claims from the place it matters and that's AAG and B. produce a clear and viable argument Envoy can somehow get enough pilots to make it work.

Bolstering one of your flight dept. managers promises and projections with your smoke and mirrors makes for a very muddled magic show.

 

Instead people should just blindly believe everything Cujo665 says ?

There it is folks.........don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. BTW, I understand he is FLOODING multiple websites with the same sales pitch 15-20 times a day, almost day after day. This must have really become a full time job for him.

Just curious, but is ALPA (actually the dues paying members) covering the trips he can't fly to be the Envoy town caller ?

 

Agreed. It's impossible to crystal ball the future NOW as to which regional will end up the best place in the long run for a pilot thinking of jumping one to another or one just starting out. To come on this forum and proclaim ANY regional as THE future is absurd.

But.........desperate times call for desperate measures and let's face it, there are a few here that absolutely dripping with desperation.

 

thus far this year, American has hired 32 new hires off the street and 73 flow thru's from Envoy.

That looks like 230% more from flows than off the street this year alone.

The rules of the game are changing. You can play the old way and chase rumors of quick upgrades, or you can see the direction the legacy carriers will be moving in. WO is where new people should be headed. Right now PDT and ENY are the best choices; for previously stated reasons ENY is the better of the two.

Now, what happens with PSA this afternoon could put them back into consideration again. I expect it will.

 

The gist of what I understand is that many at Envoy are angry with their union for taking the high road shall we say, and standing firm on concessions only to be sold out by others like PSA. Now, apparently, since there is obviously no honor among thieves in the regional pilot ranks, the gloves are off and the new approach at Envoy is to do and say whatever it takes to maximize Envoy's future.

This is what you are now seeing on this forum.

Cannot really blame them, but sadly, the ONLY entity that can START that process is AAG and so far, only Envoy management has made a peep and that peep has no legs because Envoy management doesn't call the shots. One "feel good" letter doesn't mean much, especially when that exact same approach has been made at least twice in the past, if not more. What's more, even if AAG STARTS that process, even they may not be able to pull 50 pilots out of a hat every month to make the magic show believable.

 

Or 15,822 pilots currently at AAG <500 through some sort of flow = .03% of total pilots on payroll.

A few being since the late 1990's

If half the list is going to turn over in a dozen plus a few years that's 7K plus pilots your really think Eagle and PDT are gonna cycle through 7k flows. Don't get me wrong I think every one there now is set, and I am happy for them, but that doesn't mean the door will be held open for the next 5k+ new hires.