Originally Posted by GSintercept

Hi guys,

Just having trouble figuring out what to believe or not coming from envoy. I like the flow through to AA but their cap on FO pay as well as closing the bases makes this a hard place to want to go. One thing that could help would be getting ORD out of training. Anyone know if that is a possibility???

Originally Posted by Waitingformins

Or 15,822 pilots currently at AAG <500 through some sort of flow = .03% of total pilots on payroll.



A few being since the late 1990's

If half the list is going to turn over in a dozen plus a few years that's 7K plus pilots your really think Eagle and PDT are gonna cycle through 7k flows. Don't get me wrong I think every one there now is set, and I am happy for them, but that doesn't mean the door will be held open for the next 5k+ new hires.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Don't forget, only about 330 or so of those 481 are part of the present flow-through. The previous were part of a different flow-through that mostly occurred prior to Chapter 11 and new management and since AAG is PRESENTLY hiring, Envoy is legally required to comply with an arbitration award for another 475-500 pilots. After that, the provisions are as a result of a contractual agreement between the parties as opposed to an arbitrators award and there is no specific number of pilots. As such, the future flow-through mechanism is at far more risk to significant alteration.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Additionally, there is no guarantee that AA retirements will equal a like number of vacant slots. The PBS scheduling system requires perhaps 10-15% less pilots once implemented (late 2016) and fleet reductions are in progress (30-35 less aircraft this year alone). Any increase in flying at AA, especially post 2016 (which would impact the future flow "protected pilot agreement") is likely to simply be absorbed by more block hours flown by present pilots combined with more efficient scheduling, at least to a significant degree. For example, this year I'm slated to fly 850 hours, but in pervious years it was closer to 550. Therefore, trumpeting a "retirement driven" flow is EXTREMELY assumptive and VERY optimistic considering Parker's knack for ringing out the staffing/flying dishrag until dry.

I think that claim SOUNDS good, but doesn't hold water at this point.

Originally Posted by Cujo665

AMR would never have done that; and in fact the AA HR managers were P.O.'d when the order was given to stop street hires... AAG told them too bad, stop street hires.

Originally Posted by FirstClass

Why would HR managers be upset with this or even care about this kind of decision?

Originally Posted by FirstClass

Why would HR managers be upset with this or even care about this kind of decision?

Originally Posted by Cujo665

As I said about 10 days ago.... Within a few weeks there'll be significant news. They've alread announced a change in direction for the compay, (and they rolled that out a bit earlier than expected), next I'd expect to hear about more block hours remaining here much longer, much slower transfer of aircraft, and of course the upgrades.

The AA retirement numbers alone drive our flow and upgrades; we aren't growth dependant like many other places. Based on retirement numbers alone our whole list should flow over within 6 years. So, street hire now to AA at 6 years. Not a bad back up plan. If AA is on your career radar then coming through one of it's regionals may soon be the easiest way for anybody who isn't a rocket scientist or related to the Pope.


The best commuting policy in the industry. 6 missed trips unquestioned in a rolling 12 month period with unlimited at discretion of chief pilot

Hotel before/after trip sequences, or before/after blocks fo RSV days up to 4 times per month.

Hotels in base for any pilot who was scheduled a hotel elsewhere that night, and ends up cancelled or misconnected in domicile... and this applies to RSV's on trips as well.

Hotels in base before/after critical coverage OT

Hotels in DFW for short term training even if DFW based

Full paid parking wherever you commute in from, and full paid for those parking in base.

all OT is 150% and all critical coverage OT is 200% and FO's get 4 hour minimim


some Little things that make life easier that not all regionals have....

SIDA badges for your base

Global Access customs program through US DHS & ICE (fully reimbursed & good for 5 years)

All planes ACARS equiped

Full Electronic Weight and Balance Program - EWBS (very similar to AA's)

Full paperless cockpit program under way to replace everything including release and logbooks with ipad replacements. (I hear the other WO's will be piggybacking on our work in this area)

Full DECS/RES access
Jetaway app
Crew Check-In app
Mobile FOS-Sabre app


where's your corporate HQ? an airport hanger building or storefront type office?
Here's ours.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti96LQ9RNp8

File:Envoy Air HQ.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

38 Universities now in our Pilot Pipeline program too.


It's a good time to be an Envoy pilot.

Originally Posted by GSintercept

Hi guys,

Just having trouble figuring out what to believe or not coming from envoy. I like the flow through to AA but their cap on FO pay as well as closing the bases makes this a hard place to want to go. One thing that could help would be getting ORD out of training. Anyone know if that is a possibility???

Originally Posted by TalkTurkey

Admittedly, this is very impressive. Expect an exodus of regional FOs to Envoy. Delta is going to have to drop their requirements for astronauts and heart surgeons, and perhaps even tilt a little backwards for their WO(s).